I don't find it to be a big deal, either. Normal, IL is the only one that is a bit frustrating, because you have to drive 2-3 miles off the highway (but that's because the city really wanted it co-located with the rest of their charging infrastructure to bolster their EVtown credentials).
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I don't find it to be a big deal, either. Normal, IL is the only one that is a bit frustrating, because you have to drive 2-3 miles off the highway (but that's because the city really wanted it co-located with the rest of their charging infrastructure to bolster their EVtown credentials).
I asked myself this same question driving from Boston to NYC, I decided to skip and do one charge since it would charge faster from a lower SOC. The two superchargers on i95 in CT are at rest stops, so there was no worry about driving too far to get to one.
Worked out well for me, but another factor for me was not wanting to charge whilst in NYC, so charging closer to the city was advantageous. I charged twice on the way back.
Worked out well for me, but another factor for me was not wanting to charge whilst in NYC, so charging closer to the city was advantageous. I charged twice on the way back.
That just means you charged too much at the supercharger before unless it was the first supercharger after starting your trip.
If the superchargers are all off the freeway within a minute or so of the exit, which has been the case for the over dozen locations I've visited now, the fastest way to get from point a to point b is to charge just enough to arrive at the next supercharger with 0% battery left. You of course don't want to chance that so you charge with enough of a buffer so you have say 10% left. I've discovered that if I charge until it says I'll have 5% left that I usually end up having 10% by the time I actually get to the next charger, so now I just charge to distance + 5% buffer.
If you're starting out on a full range charge skip whatever chargers such that the charger you pull into has you at the lowest SOC that you can safely get to.
Lots of great points. Already mentioned are:
1) Distance off route to Supercharger
2) Charging at the lowest SOC% is much faster than otherwise
Not mentioned:
3) Familiarity - time spent driving around looking for the charger (some people enjoy the challenge, but it can eat time) will definitely kill optimum overall travel time. If you're familiar with the site, this doesn't apply.
4) Weather - It's easy for even experts to misjudge power usage in windy / cold / rain / snow conditions, therefore novices will need a bigger buffer than experts. If weather is a factor, hedge your bets and "tanker" electrons. Don't plan to burn down to 10% on every leg, even though that will afford the fastest charge rates.
5) Busy chargers - this goes to familiarity a bit, but if you show up at a charger with every "A" side busy, that leaves you with a half speed "B" side. In other words, even a 4 stall Supercharger is "busy" with potentially just two cars. Skipping a charger to arrive at one with half speed didn't save you any time.
6) Holiday weekends - Friday / Sunday nights, and particularly holiday weekends are almost guaranteed to be busy anywhere near a large urban area, but even Bozeman, Montana can suffer this fate! Again, busy chargers equal slow chargers (or worse, waiting).
7) Detours - Do you really know where all the detours are prior to launching? Dropping to 10% or less on every leg to optimize charge speed can really backfire with a reroute and you gasping for electrons. I'd recommend spending at least a little quality time while charging to ensure that the road is at least forecast clear for the next leg. Obviously, the overturned truck / train derailment / major accident / incident can't be planned for.
8) Plan B - For those unplanned issues, plan for an alternative. For something bad enough, that means a whole lot of Tesla cars might all be competing for limited alternate resources, meaning that the best prepared will find those RV parks, hidden J1772, or CHAdeMO stations first.
9) Regional power outage - This is tough, because skipping a charger means everything must work at the next one. Rural areas in bad weather are far more likely to experience an outage than a major metro area. But, without power, no easy charging options exist, and if you burned down to 10%, you can't make it to the next one.
In a nutshell, there is no perfect right answer, because some things are out of your control. Only your degree of risk will determine how you handle skipping charge stations to burn down to low SOC%.
1) Distance off route to Supercharger
2) Charging at the lowest SOC% is much faster than otherwise
Not mentioned:
3) Familiarity - time spent driving around looking for the charger (some people enjoy the challenge, but it can eat time) will definitely kill optimum overall travel time. If you're familiar with the site, this doesn't apply.
4) Weather - It's easy for even experts to misjudge power usage in windy / cold / rain / snow conditions, therefore novices will need a bigger buffer than experts. If weather is a factor, hedge your bets and "tanker" electrons. Don't plan to burn down to 10% on every leg, even though that will afford the fastest charge rates.
5) Busy chargers - this goes to familiarity a bit, but if you show up at a charger with every "A" side busy, that leaves you with a half speed "B" side. In other words, even a 4 stall Supercharger is "busy" with potentially just two cars. Skipping a charger to arrive at one with half speed didn't save you any time.
6) Holiday weekends - Friday / Sunday nights, and particularly holiday weekends are almost guaranteed to be busy anywhere near a large urban area, but even Bozeman, Montana can suffer this fate! Again, busy chargers equal slow chargers (or worse, waiting).
7) Detours - Do you really know where all the detours are prior to launching? Dropping to 10% or less on every leg to optimize charge speed can really backfire with a reroute and you gasping for electrons. I'd recommend spending at least a little quality time while charging to ensure that the road is at least forecast clear for the next leg. Obviously, the overturned truck / train derailment / major accident / incident can't be planned for.
8) Plan B - For those unplanned issues, plan for an alternative. For something bad enough, that means a whole lot of Tesla cars might all be competing for limited alternate resources, meaning that the best prepared will find those RV parks, hidden J1772, or CHAdeMO stations first.
9) Regional power outage - This is tough, because skipping a charger means everything must work at the next one. Rural areas in bad weather are far more likely to experience an outage than a major metro area. But, without power, no easy charging options exist, and if you burned down to 10%, you can't make it to the next one.
In a nutshell, there is no perfect right answer, because some things are out of your control. Only your degree of risk will determine how you handle skipping charge stations to burn down to low SOC%.
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I charged to 100% before leaving my house, that's why I needed only one supercharger on the way to New York. Leaving New York, I wasn't anywhere near 100%, that's why I had to supercharge twice.
gglockner
Member
What about the following alternative:
- Direct route that EV Trip Planner forecasts as 210 RM between final supercharger and destination
- Route that takes a 27 mile detour for an extra supercharger stop
210 RM is fine if nothing happens. I've done longer than that (no SCs at the time), but 150 RM is far more comfortable because 210 can turn into 250 or higher if an unexpectedly strong headwind comes up or you make a wrong turn.
This is an important point that people who parrot the "stop at every supercharger" generally miss. On every trip for the first supercharger you want to drive to the furthest supercharger you can reach to drain your battery as much as possible. Only after that do you want to stop at every supercharger (assuming you are optimizing for minimum charging time, rather than other things).
mikeash
Active Member
I thought that part was kind of obvious!
If your goal is maximum speed, then you should:
1. While driving, drive to the most distant supercharger on your route that you can reach.
2. While charging, charge to the minimum amount to make it to the next supercharger.
Assuming, of course, that all of the superchargers lie directly on your route. Charging more to skip a supercharger that's a bit out of the way could be a win.
And of course #2 goes out the window if you actually want to spend more time wherever you're stopped, like if you're grabbing lunch. Then #1 may indicate skipping the next one, depending on how much you charged.
The main thing is just not to think it's useful to wait around doing nothing just to charge extra so you can skip the next supercharger.
My experience is that it is not. I've definitely had arguments with people who just believe that you should stop at every supercharger no matter what, and they always point to the Tesla cross country trip ("but they said you should stop at every supercharger!"). The fact is that for a lot of people even on a road trip the bulk of the driving you do in any given day will be covered by your initial range, and multiple supercharger stops in a single day will be the exception.
The way I read the original post in the thread, he was talking about starting out from the beginning, and nobody said he should skip the first supercharger, everybody said he should stop at it.
yea some around here are not close to highways or in very bad congested areas. theres a few in NJ where its like a mile or two from the turnpike but can take an hour and a half to get there and back in traffic. (aka edison and paramus).
You don't know if that Supercharger 180 miles away will be full and you could wait an hour. If after 100 miles you want to stop and stretch your legs for 10 min and pick up a few miles that's not a bad way to do it either.
mikeash
Active Member
gglockner
Member
Good point. I don't want my passengers to get too anxious. Sounds like an extra stop is a good idea.
jdo
Member
I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some point in other threads, but one thing that could help decision making at times would be if the supercharger map could be queried about how many chargers were in use and out of service.
As for me, it took a few long distance trips for me to change my mentality to frequent stops +shorter charging. But the other thing I found was that I'm much more relaxed driving the Tesla. Before I was all about getting to the destination as fast as possible. Now the drive is more enjoyable and I'm more patient.
As for me, it took a few long distance trips for me to change my mentality to frequent stops +shorter charging. But the other thing I found was that I'm much more relaxed driving the Tesla. Before I was all about getting to the destination as fast as possible. Now the drive is more enjoyable and I'm more patient.
Thanks for all the tips folks. I'll be doing my first road trip next week. 440 miles each way...
1. EV Trip planner is awesome, but there is no 70D love. You would think that it would be easy to add? Does the site creator use TMC?
2. I live close to a supercharger, and I'm hoping to skip the first nearest two chargers (25 and 105 miles) to get to the third charger 207 miles away. I'm guessing if I range charge before I leave, having a 33 mile buffer will be enough...
1. EV Trip planner is awesome, but there is no 70D love. You would think that it would be easy to add? Does the site creator use TMC?
2. I live close to a supercharger, and I'm hoping to skip the first nearest two chargers (25 and 105 miles) to get to the third charger 207 miles away. I'm guessing if I range charge before I leave, having a 33 mile buffer will be enough...
We took our DFW->Seattle area trip really easy, Day 1: 5 SC, Day 2: 3 SCs (due to SC gap), Day 3: 2 SCs (due to SC gap), Day 4: 5 SCs, day 5: 4 SCs. Had there not been a gap, Day 2 and Day 3 would have been one day. Had we pushed it, we could have done it in three days even with the gap, but then we would have been worn out when we got to the destination.
There were two SCs that we could have skipped out of 19: Wichita and Missoula. (Note: Oklahoma City and Sheridan were not opened up yet during the trip--for those who are counting more than 19 SCs.)
I don't really see how multiple SC stops in a day are the exception when on a trip, seems to me multiple stops are the norm.
It depends on what sort of trips you take, I guess. If I'm taking a road trip, it's to see stuff in the area I'm driving through. I rarely drive more than 300 miles in a day. If I want to get someplace I'll fly and rent a car when I get there. I did say for a lot of people, not everybody.
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