-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Supercharger Announcement 2013/05/30
- Thread starter radinator
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Tesla Inc.
Owner
Active Member
Interesting... they do have battery storage at some of these supercharges. Can be off grid!:biggrin:
Glad to hear this. Now I don't have to call the solar panels at the SCs a joke anymore.
It would be nice if they listed the cities instead of just dots on a low-res map. Still curious if it will be Paso Robles or Atascadero.
I am disappointed that the west coast corridor won't be complete this summer. Need to find some RV parks in Oregon, I guess!
Empirically, it looks like those are the new ones for that time period. However, Musk's answer to that question on the call was that those are the ones that are awaiting permit. His answer does not jive with the map, though.
Someone needs to ask about any contracts or affiliations with any particular companies--ie. McDonalds, etc.
I think he was saying more that it was "not novel", not that he wasn't keen on it.
deonb
Active Member
Tesla Motors, Inc. Supercharger Announcement
May 30, 2013 at 10:30 AM PT
Rough Transcript
[Ed: Abbreviations:
SC = supercharger
SOC = state of charge
EOY = end of year]
Making a dramatic increase in deployment of SC network, in response to people's desires to have really fast charge capability throughout the country.
Increasing the density on well-travelled routes, with a SC every 80 to 100 miles.
Los Angeles to New York just using the SC network.
Increasing the maximum charge rate from 90 kW to 120 kW. Reference to standard Model S with 60 kWh pack - 2/3rd recharge in just over 20 minutes. Drive 3 hours, stop 20 minutes. It allows people to stop for the normal amount of time to stop for anyway for a roadtrip.
Although max charge rate is increasing by third, experience will improve by half. We've been able to improve SC algorithm to the point where the tapering point occurs much later in the SOC.
Higher charge rate still in beta, but we expect to have that rolled out to all SC stations within 3 months.
Allow you to drive anywhere in U.S. or Canada just using the SC network. [Ed: loose translation] Free. Charging. For. Life.
[Ed: skipped personal story]
Questions
1. When will there be a SC in Detroit? Which station is currently the most popular (Harris Ranch)? Any concern of battery degradation from SCing?
Will have Detroit covered by EOY [with some language about between city locations]. Almost all of Michigan will be covered by SC by EOY.
Most busy used to be Harris, had the longest queue. Busiest ones now are Gilroy and Delaware.
Battery warranty unaffected even if using SC daily. SC doesn't affect the life of the pack very much; slight but quite negligible. What's more important in SOC; not storing the pack when full. Cell phones and laptops are typically kept in the worst conditions. Best thing is mid SOC and cold.
2. Looking at link for SC network, and two questions. What is the diff between red (SC?) and gray dots (other?)? What kind of barrier has this been - long distance / range anxiety - in sales?
If you go too the SC page, you can see the rollout of SC. Gray - about to be complete, very very soon, waiting for permits / final sign-off from permit authority.
It's not necessary to maintain our current level of sales (just over 20K run rate on sales in NA). With this announcement we're hoping to educate. All Model S have supercharging capability but it's turned on with 85 kWh and optionally with 60 kWh; those opting out can turn it on later.
In terms of what it means to a larger group of customers, it does mean quite a lot to mainstream customers to drive your car anywhere you want to go. Even if they only make the occasional trip they want to know they have that ability to do so. On a moment's notice. Really important for accessing a broader audience.
3. Do you have any cost figures you can provide? At the original introduction, you had a ballpark for each station. Has the timetable accelerated a little bit (vs. 100 ...)?
Yes, it has [accelerated]. Cost is approximately what we first estimated, roughly $150K per station in expenditures without solar. And another $150K with solar.
We'll probably be at the 100 station mark next year. About twice as fast as originally planned.
4. How many stations are planned for CA? How many SCs across the nation altogether when you're done? Your earlier buyers (Roadster) will not be able to use SC?
High density in CA as well as on the east coast corridor between Virginia and Massachusetts, with distance of 80 to 100 miles between SCs.
If you tap the lightning bolt on the nav screen [in 4.5 presumably], it will route you to the nearest SC. We update the locations in realtime as they go live.
Actual number of SC charger locations ... CA 25-30, couple hundred across [Ed, rephrased: North America].
European SC announcements in a few months. First European deliveries in July.
4b. Roadsters?
Roadsters don't have the ability to do high DC voltage bypass to the pack. Model S can either take AC current and route that to onboard chargers, or take high powered DC from SC and route that to the pack. On the Roadster it all flows through the on-board charger.
5. Why the strategy almost every week?
Concentrated series of announcement. I did say 5 part trilogy, then we had intermission (DOE, etc.). Unexpected intermission.
After the 5 part trilogy (named in honor of Douglas Adams), we plan to be quiet for a while.
One more on June 20th. An in-person thing.
5b. Explain how the solar works for the stations that do have solar?
The general principle is that we want to generate more energy from the sun over the course of the year than used by Model S at the SCs.
Most SCing on Friday afternoon and evening. Low usage during the week.
The solar panels are generating power throughout the course of the week. Cumulatively adds up to more than the cars consume.
We actually have grid storage going on at some of our supercharging stations. Stationary battery packs that take in energy through the week, through the solar panels. The solar panels charge the battery pack, and then that stationary battery pack charges the Model S battery pack. Capable of going completely off-grid. These stations will operate even if the national grid goes down.
(Joking) Zombie apocalypse you'll still be able to charge with the SC system.
5c. Solar panel location?
Above the SC parking stalls. Examples at Tejon and Hawthorne. Over time we'll have that at all SC stations. Takes longer for panel installation.
Side benefit: carport, shielded from sun and rain while charging.
6. How much of an issue has reliability been on the SCs?
Need to make sure we have a lot of parking spaces available. SC has the ability to route power to multiple parking bays. Currently 2, but will be upgrading to 4. Need to make sure there's always an excess of stations.
6b. Unmanned stations. Any issues with people showing up and it not working?
Multiple stations, redundancy. Minimum of 2 at each station. Thus, at least 4 parking bays. It's fairly unlikely that 2 or more would be down.
Superchargers...stacking a whole bunch of chargers designed for the cars. Twelve chargers inside. Redundancy. On failure power is reduced, rather than [offline].
6c. Any difficulties with various states?
Initial installations took some time to educate authorities. In last several months, Tesla awareness has increased quite a bit and a few stations operating. So authorities can now be referred to existing examples. Now it's great. Quite difficult in the beginning.
7. No reservation system? Just increase spots?
Overdo it on spots. Just have a huge number of parking spots available so you never have to reserve.
7b. Looking at California concentrations. Are there other places where parallel roads are going to be an option?
We will be putting SC on multiple paralle routes so you won't be stuck on one particular route. Driving the I-5 is fast but a little bleak. Not the best way to see CA. If you drive 101 it's awesome. We want to enable both people who want to get there fast, or people that want a slightly more scenic route to be able to do that. Throughout the country. We want to enable generally so people can do the scenic route or the fast route, at minimum.
Eventually, any route anywhere in the country.
7c. This is 2015 map then? Not the be all and end all.
We'll probably do more than even is shown here, in 2015. Overarching goal is to give people a sense of total freedom of travel. Don't want them to feel constrained because of driving an electric car. We will do whatever it takes to ensure the same - better - experience of freedom of travel than in a gasoline car.
8. Most major metro areas covered in the next 6 months. How many stations do you plan for in the next 6 months? Rather than 2015.
We'll end up doing a little more than this map shows. [Ed: I think he's referring to more red dots, some of the gray converting to red.]
Twelve months 80-90% of U.S. and Canadian customers being within range of SC. 100% [after that].
8b. [Repeat of 2nd question in 4]
200ish in U.S. and Canada.
[Some discussion of how the range of the S is much more than the Leaf.]
The range of the car is the area of the circle. For Leaf with 1/4 range of the Model S, you need 16 chargers not 4 to get the same coverage.
8c. Location of the chargers. Will they be located close to major roadways? Like gas stations are, rest stops, etc.
Will be quite rare to be 200 mi. away from [nearest] SC. Max will likely be around 150 mi.
Located at existing highway rest stops.
8d. And future ones as well?
Located at the place someone would normally stop on a long distance route.
9. Quick speculative question. With such a massive SC network by 2015, are there any plans to open this up to other EVs?
It's a very high-powered charge. It needs to do this upper high speed tango with the pack. Without that, you can't charge at this rate.
60 times the average power used by a house. Average 2 kW. Supercharger 60 times that.
It's difficult to make that generic. It needs to know the pack.
We're not closed to the idea. Not trying to create a closed system as a strategy. We need to solve the problem of long distance travel, and we can't wait for others. Consensus would take too long.
Other manufacturers can either copy us or join us.
10. Solar, superchargers, grid storage. Which percentage of SCs will have the solar component? Which percentage with have grid storage with that solar?
Long-term, all of them. Just a matter of time. In order to expand rapidly, install without them and backfill over time. Solar lag behind SC installation 12-18 months. Grid storage 6-12 months after that.
10b. Solar before storage?
Yes.
10c. How many grid storage so far? How big are they?
Two in operation now. Pretty sizeable. Half MWh. Capable of putting out a MW if need be.
10d. Where?
Rather not say so people don't futz with them. California.
Grid storage is a helpful thing because it offers a buffer to the grid. They like.
11. With 20 minute charges, do you see any role for battery switching in the future?
Today is about charging. I should say... that... I'm a big fan of optionality. I've talked about battery pack swap for a long time. Since really the beginning of Tesla. I don't think pack swap is a particularly brilliant idea; we swap packs in laptops and cell phones. The question is about doing it with something much larger. How convenient? What are the economics like? Maybe we'll have something to say about that in the future.
[Ed: I get the feeling this is related to June 20th base on his measured response, delays etc.]
12. ... mainstream buyers [Ed: Sorry I missed the question.]
Lightspeed ahead of anything they are familiar with. People don't believe it's truly until they at least read about it, and hear about their friends using it. Crucial to reach a broader audience.
Ultimtely we need to come out with a more affordable car. That can use the SC. In 3-4 years.
12b. So future vehicles will support... ?
All future cars will have that capability [SC].
13. Clarification on number of SC plugs now vs. this year, EONY.
Don't have the number handy. One thing that's not obvious: in addition to new stations, we're increasing the number of ports at existing stations.
Example: Harris used to have just 1 port. Now it has 10. Not reflected in the map.
13b. [Followup question about impact of ports increasing]
Two to three thousand ports...
14. Affordability. Now that you have this SC network and concept of freedom of travel. What does a more affordable Tesla vehicle look like?
Early design stages. Obvious design elements... little bit smaller. Model S comparable in size to A7. Closer to A4 on the new car.
Order of magnitude greater volume - economy of scale. Third generation - so cheaper to manufacture.
14b. Specifically style-wise.
It'll be in a family with the Model S and the Model X. Model X trying to do something innovate with first double-hinged gullwing, falcon wing as we call it.
"We want greater than minivan functionality with the aesthetics of the SUV and performance of a sports car."
Gen 3 - smaller version of the sedan.
May 30, 2013 at 10:30 AM PT
Rough Transcript
[Ed: Abbreviations:
SC = supercharger
SOC = state of charge
EOY = end of year]
Making a dramatic increase in deployment of SC network, in response to people's desires to have really fast charge capability throughout the country.
Increasing the density on well-travelled routes, with a SC every 80 to 100 miles.
Los Angeles to New York just using the SC network.
Increasing the maximum charge rate from 90 kW to 120 kW. Reference to standard Model S with 60 kWh pack - 2/3rd recharge in just over 20 minutes. Drive 3 hours, stop 20 minutes. It allows people to stop for the normal amount of time to stop for anyway for a roadtrip.
Although max charge rate is increasing by third, experience will improve by half. We've been able to improve SC algorithm to the point where the tapering point occurs much later in the SOC.
Higher charge rate still in beta, but we expect to have that rolled out to all SC stations within 3 months.
Allow you to drive anywhere in U.S. or Canada just using the SC network. [Ed: loose translation] Free. Charging. For. Life.
[Ed: skipped personal story]
Questions
1. When will there be a SC in Detroit? Which station is currently the most popular (Harris Ranch)? Any concern of battery degradation from SCing?
Will have Detroit covered by EOY [with some language about between city locations]. Almost all of Michigan will be covered by SC by EOY.
Most busy used to be Harris, had the longest queue. Busiest ones now are Gilroy and Delaware.
Battery warranty unaffected even if using SC daily. SC doesn't affect the life of the pack very much; slight but quite negligible. What's more important in SOC; not storing the pack when full. Cell phones and laptops are typically kept in the worst conditions. Best thing is mid SOC and cold.
2. Looking at link for SC network, and two questions. What is the diff between red (SC?) and gray dots (other?)? What kind of barrier has this been - long distance / range anxiety - in sales?
If you go too the SC page, you can see the rollout of SC. Gray - about to be complete, very very soon, waiting for permits / final sign-off from permit authority.
It's not necessary to maintain our current level of sales (just over 20K run rate on sales in NA). With this announcement we're hoping to educate. All Model S have supercharging capability but it's turned on with 85 kWh and optionally with 60 kWh; those opting out can turn it on later.
In terms of what it means to a larger group of customers, it does mean quite a lot to mainstream customers to drive your car anywhere you want to go. Even if they only make the occasional trip they want to know they have that ability to do so. On a moment's notice. Really important for accessing a broader audience.
3. Do you have any cost figures you can provide? At the original introduction, you had a ballpark for each station. Has the timetable accelerated a little bit (vs. 100 ...)?
Yes, it has [accelerated]. Cost is approximately what we first estimated, roughly $150K per station in expenditures without solar. And another $150K with solar.
We'll probably be at the 100 station mark next year. About twice as fast as originally planned.
4. How many stations are planned for CA? How many SCs across the nation altogether when you're done? Your earlier buyers (Roadster) will not be able to use SC?
High density in CA as well as on the east coast corridor between Virginia and Massachusetts, with distance of 80 to 100 miles between SCs.
If you tap the lightning bolt on the nav screen [in 4.5 presumably], it will route you to the nearest SC. We update the locations in realtime as they go live.
Actual number of SC charger locations ... CA 25-30, couple hundred across [Ed, rephrased: North America].
European SC announcements in a few months. First European deliveries in July.
4b. Roadsters?
Roadsters don't have the ability to do high DC voltage bypass to the pack. Model S can either take AC current and route that to onboard chargers, or take high powered DC from SC and route that to the pack. On the Roadster it all flows through the on-board charger.
5. Why the strategy almost every week?
Concentrated series of announcement. I did say 5 part trilogy, then we had intermission (DOE, etc.). Unexpected intermission.
After the 5 part trilogy (named in honor of Douglas Adams), we plan to be quiet for a while.
One more on June 20th. An in-person thing.
5b. Explain how the solar works for the stations that do have solar?
The general principle is that we want to generate more energy from the sun over the course of the year than used by Model S at the SCs.
Most SCing on Friday afternoon and evening. Low usage during the week.
The solar panels are generating power throughout the course of the week. Cumulatively adds up to more than the cars consume.
We actually have grid storage going on at some of our supercharging stations. Stationary battery packs that take in energy through the week, through the solar panels. The solar panels charge the battery pack, and then that stationary battery pack charges the Model S battery pack. Capable of going completely off-grid. These stations will operate even if the national grid goes down.
(Joking) Zombie apocalypse you'll still be able to charge with the SC system.
5c. Solar panel location?
Above the SC parking stalls. Examples at Tejon and Hawthorne. Over time we'll have that at all SC stations. Takes longer for panel installation.
Side benefit: carport, shielded from sun and rain while charging.
6. How much of an issue has reliability been on the SCs?
Need to make sure we have a lot of parking spaces available. SC has the ability to route power to multiple parking bays. Currently 2, but will be upgrading to 4. Need to make sure there's always an excess of stations.
6b. Unmanned stations. Any issues with people showing up and it not working?
Multiple stations, redundancy. Minimum of 2 at each station. Thus, at least 4 parking bays. It's fairly unlikely that 2 or more would be down.
Superchargers...stacking a whole bunch of chargers designed for the cars. Twelve chargers inside. Redundancy. On failure power is reduced, rather than [offline].
6c. Any difficulties with various states?
Initial installations took some time to educate authorities. In last several months, Tesla awareness has increased quite a bit and a few stations operating. So authorities can now be referred to existing examples. Now it's great. Quite difficult in the beginning.
7. No reservation system? Just increase spots?
Overdo it on spots. Just have a huge number of parking spots available so you never have to reserve.
7b. Looking at California concentrations. Are there other places where parallel roads are going to be an option?
We will be putting SC on multiple paralle routes so you won't be stuck on one particular route. Driving the I-5 is fast but a little bleak. Not the best way to see CA. If you drive 101 it's awesome. We want to enable both people who want to get there fast, or people that want a slightly more scenic route to be able to do that. Throughout the country. We want to enable generally so people can do the scenic route or the fast route, at minimum.
Eventually, any route anywhere in the country.
7c. This is 2015 map then? Not the be all and end all.
We'll probably do more than even is shown here, in 2015. Overarching goal is to give people a sense of total freedom of travel. Don't want them to feel constrained because of driving an electric car. We will do whatever it takes to ensure the same - better - experience of freedom of travel than in a gasoline car.
8. Most major metro areas covered in the next 6 months. How many stations do you plan for in the next 6 months? Rather than 2015.
We'll end up doing a little more than this map shows. [Ed: I think he's referring to more red dots, some of the gray converting to red.]
Twelve months 80-90% of U.S. and Canadian customers being within range of SC. 100% [after that].
8b. [Repeat of 2nd question in 4]
200ish in U.S. and Canada.
[Some discussion of how the range of the S is much more than the Leaf.]
The range of the car is the area of the circle. For Leaf with 1/4 range of the Model S, you need 16 chargers not 4 to get the same coverage.
8c. Location of the chargers. Will they be located close to major roadways? Like gas stations are, rest stops, etc.
Will be quite rare to be 200 mi. away from [nearest] SC. Max will likely be around 150 mi.
Located at existing highway rest stops.
8d. And future ones as well?
Located at the place someone would normally stop on a long distance route.
9. Quick speculative question. With such a massive SC network by 2015, are there any plans to open this up to other EVs?
It's a very high-powered charge. It needs to do this upper high speed tango with the pack. Without that, you can't charge at this rate.
60 times the average power used by a house. Average 2 kW. Supercharger 60 times that.
It's difficult to make that generic. It needs to know the pack.
We're not closed to the idea. Not trying to create a closed system as a strategy. We need to solve the problem of long distance travel, and we can't wait for others. Consensus would take too long.
Other manufacturers can either copy us or join us.
10. Solar, superchargers, grid storage. Which percentage of SCs will have the solar component? Which percentage with have grid storage with that solar?
Long-term, all of them. Just a matter of time. In order to expand rapidly, install without them and backfill over time. Solar lag behind SC installation 12-18 months. Grid storage 6-12 months after that.
10b. Solar before storage?
Yes.
10c. How many grid storage so far? How big are they?
Two in operation now. Pretty sizeable. Half MWh. Capable of putting out a MW if need be.
10d. Where?
Rather not say so people don't futz with them. California.
Grid storage is a helpful thing because it offers a buffer to the grid. They like.
11. With 20 minute charges, do you see any role for battery switching in the future?
Today is about charging. I should say... that... I'm a big fan of optionality. I've talked about battery pack swap for a long time. Since really the beginning of Tesla. I don't think pack swap is a particularly brilliant idea; we swap packs in laptops and cell phones. The question is about doing it with something much larger. How convenient? What are the economics like? Maybe we'll have something to say about that in the future.
[Ed: I get the feeling this is related to June 20th base on his measured response, delays etc.]
12. ... mainstream buyers [Ed: Sorry I missed the question.]
Lightspeed ahead of anything they are familiar with. People don't believe it's truly until they at least read about it, and hear about their friends using it. Crucial to reach a broader audience.
Ultimtely we need to come out with a more affordable car. That can use the SC. In 3-4 years.
12b. So future vehicles will support... ?
All future cars will have that capability [SC].
13. Clarification on number of SC plugs now vs. this year, EONY.
Don't have the number handy. One thing that's not obvious: in addition to new stations, we're increasing the number of ports at existing stations.
Example: Harris used to have just 1 port. Now it has 10. Not reflected in the map.
13b. [Followup question about impact of ports increasing]
Two to three thousand ports...
14. Affordability. Now that you have this SC network and concept of freedom of travel. What does a more affordable Tesla vehicle look like?
Early design stages. Obvious design elements... little bit smaller. Model S comparable in size to A7. Closer to A4 on the new car.
Order of magnitude greater volume - economy of scale. Third generation - so cheaper to manufacture.
14b. Specifically style-wise.
It'll be in a family with the Model S and the Model X. Model X trying to do something innovate with first double-hinged gullwing, falcon wing as we call it.
"We want greater than minivan functionality with the aesthetics of the SUV and performance of a sports car."
Gen 3 - smaller version of the sedan.
Early design stages of Gen III. A little smaller. S = 5 series; Gen III = A4, 3 series
Economies of scale because greater volume
Learning from Gen II
Wants to do something more - but they don't have it yet
Style will be "in family" with Model S and Model X
- - - Updated - - -
Economies of scale because greater volume
Learning from Gen II
Wants to do something more - but they don't have it yet
Style will be "in family" with Model S and Model X
- - - Updated - - -
... once 200 SC locations rolled out
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Article
- Article