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Supercharger - Asheville, NC

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There's definitely going to be some delay I'd guess at this point. They've got enough superchargers to make most travel possible right now, so the incentive to continue building more is slowing from many perspectives.

We have to keep in mind that the superchargers are in fact a marketing expense. There is little chance they can turn any kind of profit on superchargers given their high initial build costs and so-far reasonable usage costs, unless they go the way of other charging networks and charge prices that are on-par with or sometimes even more than gasoline costs per mile.

Eventually this will move out of the marketing budget and have to be something that at least breaks even for them... so, higher costs for us at some point. When that will happen, who knows, but it seems likely to happen.

I'm glad the network exists, and so far it's been useful for my long distance travel a few times per year... but I'm not holding my breath on getting any major expansions along the areas I personally frequent. It's far less expensive for Tesla to deal with a few people complaining about waiting every now and again than it is to build more half-million dollar installations to cover that top few% of usage.
 
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There's definitely going to be some delay I'd guess at this point. They've got enough superchargers to make most travel possible right now, so the incentive to continue building more is slowing from many perspectives.

We have to keep in mind that the superchargers are in fact a marketing expense. There is little chance they can turn any kind of profit on superchargers given their high initial build costs and so-far reasonable usage costs, unless they go the way of other charging networks and charge prices that are on-par with or sometimes even more than gasoline costs per mile.

Eventually this will move out of the marketing budget and have to be something that at least breaks even for them... so, higher costs for us at some point. When that will happen, who knows, but it seems likely to happen.

I'm glad the network exists, and so far it's been useful for my long distance travel a few times per year... but I'm not holding my breath on getting any major expansions along the areas I personally frequent. It's far less expensive for Tesla to deal with a few people complaining about waiting every now and again than it is to build more half-million dollar installations to cover that top few% of usage.
True historically. The end of ultra-generous Supercharger access has already happened. That will not make tenetwork profitable, but it will defray most of the operating costs. I think Tesla will continue the urban chargers as well as increased sizes of existing installations. Don't forget, Superchargers are very cheap compared to legacy mfr advertising budgets.
 
There's definitely going to be some delay I'd guess at this point. They've got enough superchargers to make most travel possible right now, so the incentive to continue building more is slowing from many perspectives.

We have to keep in mind that the superchargers are in fact a marketing expense. There is little chance they can turn any kind of profit on superchargers given their high initial build costs and so-far reasonable usage costs, unless they go the way of other charging networks and charge prices that are on-par with or sometimes even more than gasoline costs per mile.

Eventually this will move out of the marketing budget and have to be something that at least breaks even for them... so, higher costs for us at some point. When that will happen, who knows, but it seems likely to happen.

I'm glad the network exists, and so far it's been useful for my long distance travel a few times per year... but I'm not holding my breath on getting any major expansions along the areas I personally frequent. It's far less expensive for Tesla to deal with a few people complaining about waiting every now and again than it is to build more half-million dollar installations to cover that top few% of usage.
Don't forget that the supercharger network is the moat that protects their castle. Every competitor that wants to go toe to toe will need to show first that their car can get to every place a driver *could* want to go. It's as much as a perception thing as it is a practical thing.
 
We have to keep in mind that the superchargers are in fact a marketing expense. There is little chance they can turn any kind of profit on superchargers given their high initial build costs and so-far reasonable usage costs, unless they go the way of other charging networks and charge prices that are on-par with or sometimes even more than gasoline costs per mile.

Has anyone given a price for how much an average supercharger stall costs to install? If I recollect a couple install one in front of their house on the curb and it ran 13k or so with permitting etc. What do you think of as high initial costs?

Cause the usage costs are reasonable (28 cents Kwh). Retail in my neck of the woods is 10 cents and I am certain they get various discounts on that using wholesale electric costs. So that is a pretty healthy profit margin although I am sure it is much lower in other parts of the country.

So some basic math says to pay back that 13K cost over one year would require ~130Kwh of charging per day. That number is almost certainly off by a *lot*, but it could be cheaper than 13k per stall for Tesla to install, their rates could be cheaper or it could cost them more and their rates could be higher. But a busy stall puts out a lot more than 130Kwh per day so...

Point being that with more and more Model 3s out, I certainly think the Supercharger network can make money for Tesla. They do need to build it out more but they are definitely constrained trying to expand everything at once.

EDIT: Realized I replied to a really old post, but point still stands.
 
Has anyone given a price for how much an average supercharger stall costs to install? If I recollect a couple install one in front of their house on the curb and it ran 13k or so with permitting etc. What do you think of as high initial costs?

Cause the usage costs are reasonable (28 cents Kwh). Retail in my neck of the woods is 10 cents and I am certain they get various discounts on that using wholesale electric costs. So that is a pretty healthy profit margin although I am sure it is much lower in other parts of the country.

So some basic math says to pay back that 13K cost over one year would require ~130Kwh of charging per day. That number is almost certainly off by a *lot*, but it could be cheaper than 13k per stall for Tesla to install, their rates could be cheaper or it could cost them more and their rates could be higher. But a busy stall puts out a lot more than 130Kwh per day so...

Point being that with more and more Model 3s out, I certainly think the Supercharger network can make money for Tesla. They do need to build it out more but they are definitely constrained trying to expand everything at once.

EDIT: Realized I replied to a really old post, but point still stands.

I think we are still at $200-250k for a standard 8 bay. That includes everything; materials, equipment, site work, landscaping, permitting, installation, etc.
 
I think we are still at $200-250k for a standard 8 bay. That includes everything; materials, equipment, site work, landscaping, permitting, installation, etc.

Gotcha, so 25-30k each let's say, so call one year break even 300Kwh per day per stall on the high end, give or take orders of magnitude. So maybe 6 cars adding 50Kwh over a 24 hour period, call that 4 hours.

So lots of WAGs here, but it's hard to see how the SC network will not be a profit center at some point as X/S unlimited charging expires and more Model 3s are on the road.
 
Gotcha, so 25-30k each let's say, so call one year break even 300Kwh per day per stall on the high end, give or take orders of magnitude. So maybe 6 cars adding 50Kwh over a 24 hour period, call that 4 hours.

So lots of WAGs here, but it's hard to see how the SC network will not be a profit center at some point as X/S unlimited charging expires and more Model 3s are on the road.
The problem is that it sounds like you're unfamiliar with how commercial electricity is priced. It doesn't work the same way residential does, where most of your costs are related to how much electricity you use. For a usage case like a supercharger, the majority of the cost is going to be the demand charges, not the variable costs of the electricity itself. Yeah, they get a cheaper $/kWh price than the residential customers for what actually gets used, but that's likely missing 80+% of their bill for a sparsely used station.
 
I am aware of demand charges and obviously they are going to be high for a supercharger location but even at a sparsely used location they are almost certainly not going to be 80% of the electric charges. Even with demand charges, commercial power is cheaper than retail power. I also didn't factor ongoing maintenance, taxes or property leasing costs, it's called 'back of the napkin math'.

I am definitely not arguing that a sparsely used location is raking in profits for Tesla. I have no idea the average utilization of the supercharger network as a whole. My point being that the network could be managed as a self sustaining sector of the business in the future. I don't believe it is profitable now and I am certain that is not their intent.

I'd personally love to see Tesla deploy more 2/4/6 bay stations around towns in the future (not just on highways) since I think that would drive more usage but again you would need to analyze costs and usage so that could be completely impractical.
 
The problem is that it sounds like you're unfamiliar with how commercial electricity is priced. It doesn't work the same way residential does, where most of your costs are related to how much electricity you use. For a usage case like a supercharger, the majority of the cost is going to be the demand charges, not the variable costs of the electricity itself. Yeah, they get a cheaper $/kWh price than the residential customers for what actually gets used, but that's likely missing 80+% of their bill for a sparsely used station.

Created a new thread for this Can the Supercharger Network be profitable?
 
This needs it's own thread? Also, would be great if true. I-77 needs work through NC.

Not sure which comment you are referring to but yes, 5 comments unrelated to the original post at all probably needs it's own thread.

Mount Airy would be nice but being in Charlotte I'd personally love to see one in the middle of the Charlotte/Raleigh/Fayetteville triangle to cover the middle of the state, and something along I-74 around Shelby since that is the best route out to the Asheville/Brevard area for us. Not a huge deal since I have the LR M3, but for anyone with SR it makes the Asheville supercharger a necessity.

Since you are from SC I'd also say its surprising Charleston and/or the I-26 corridor doesn't have one.
 
News for Asheville!!

1 - new Supercharger permit at 4 S Tunnel Rd - Supercharger - Asheville, NC (Whole Foods)

2 - the original Asheville Supercharger is getting an expansion as well!!

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