I've read the contracts for at least 4 different locations. They all include that Tesla is leasing the parking stalls as well as the space for the equipment/hardware. They all included language that the owners needed to coordinate with Tesla to "ensure that charging stalls remain available for vehicle charging at all times," and that the owners "shall not take any action that would impair or interrupt the use of the premises" (e.g. setting up a huge tent blocking access).
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NoBeard
Member
Thanks,
When I visit the manager next time I'm going to show him this and ask if that's in their agreement as well.
Surprisingly enough, that one actually did happen to be from a Canadian location. I'll post the attachment as a full image below so you can hopefully see it without issue, but we've strayed Off Topic pretty strongly now as none of this is directly about the situation in Aulac any more. If you want to continue to discuss the point, we should really start a new thread on the topic and do it there. Or as a DM/"Conversation".
XHabjab
TSLA Bull
The key words there are "repeatedly park in the Enabled Stalls for greater than the permitted duration". In many places, that duration is not zero. There are many places I have seen in the South and Midwest where Tesla Supercharger stalls allow "general parking" for an interval (eg. 30 minutes, 60 minutes...). In many cases, I've also seen a restaurant or hotel management park their own ICE vehicle in a Tesla stall, effectively to reserve it, which would allow a Tesla owner to request freeing up the spot from the management. If a customer (or other non-staff) ICEd the spot, that would be more difficult.
I suspect that the agreements that Tesla has with property owners are all unique and not just rubber stamp agreements.
XHabjab
TSLA Bull
Yeah, sometimes reality sucks. But it's still reality.
In the Midwest (US), HyVee grocery stores host a lot of Superchargers. Many allow "General Parking" (aka ICEing) for ~30 minutes at about half of the stalls at a given location. This is posted on a red Tesla sign. "Okay to ICE" is not just implied, it's officially allowed, on a sign with a Tesla logo.
I'll see if I can find a few examples and post here. [I would also think that @PLUS EV travels enough to see this first hand...]
Sisko - DS9
Member
I think this is all nonesense on the signage. Not sure why Tesla would agree to have these signs put up. I have visted plenty of gas stations in my time and those with large convinence stores and fast food joints attached - like A&W/Burger joints, Subways, etc. And in all I have never seen a sign at the pumps that says it is okay for cars to have general parking infront of the pump for 30 minutes so people have place to park so they can come into the convience store or fast food place. Never.
This concept that it is to apply to general parking is a distraction. It is nonsense. The charging stations are "filling stations" no different in importance or operation than a gas pump. Just pumps out a different source of energy in a different state (gas in a liquid state, Electrons in energy state). Those stalls should be for charging 24/7 period. Full Stop. Anything else is a bunch of crap and a cop-out by the property owner. This just invites confrontation and makes it open for those people who have demons against EVs to excercise their ridiculous hate-on for EV by parking in those spots - when there are perfectly good spots closer to where they want to go available for them. This is going to breed resentment and soon enough confrontation.
Just as an aside example... I was watching a you-tube program called "TFL Car"; and the hosts just ordered and bought an AWD long range model three - with the 19" wheels. On their drive home (remember this is in the USA - Colorado), from the Tesla store he passed buy an individual driving his elevated/hiked up SUV (Jeep); and TFL Car they love trucks and mods, etc. They have whole shows about that, they are very much objective in their reviews and appreciate all modes of cars... the guys in the Jeep proceeded to give them the middle finger for driving the Tesla. This is the mentality, and these signs are a licence to cause trouble. That is just the person who will park in those spots and, by the existence of those signs, he will feel it is his "right" to park there.
Those signs need to be taken down and changed to "charging only." Period. No general parking, end of story. That is my opinion. behaviour and attitude will not change unless the process becomes structured.
This concept that it is to apply to general parking is a distraction. It is nonsense. The charging stations are "filling stations" no different in importance or operation than a gas pump. Just pumps out a different source of energy in a different state (gas in a liquid state, Electrons in energy state). Those stalls should be for charging 24/7 period. Full Stop. Anything else is a bunch of crap and a cop-out by the property owner. This just invites confrontation and makes it open for those people who have demons against EVs to excercise their ridiculous hate-on for EV by parking in those spots - when there are perfectly good spots closer to where they want to go available for them. This is going to breed resentment and soon enough confrontation.
Just as an aside example... I was watching a you-tube program called "TFL Car"; and the hosts just ordered and bought an AWD long range model three - with the 19" wheels. On their drive home (remember this is in the USA - Colorado), from the Tesla store he passed buy an individual driving his elevated/hiked up SUV (Jeep); and TFL Car they love trucks and mods, etc. They have whole shows about that, they are very much objective in their reviews and appreciate all modes of cars... the guys in the Jeep proceeded to give them the middle finger for driving the Tesla. This is the mentality, and these signs are a licence to cause trouble. That is just the person who will park in those spots and, by the existence of those signs, he will feel it is his "right" to park there.
Those signs need to be taken down and changed to "charging only." Period. No general parking, end of story. That is my opinion. behaviour and attitude will not change unless the process becomes structured.
@Sisko - DS9, you've completely missed the point and possibly misunderstood the basis of the requirement. The reason your analogy to the gas pumps is such a poor one is that the properties supporting those "filling stations" were designed and built from the get-go to meet that purpose. And were therefore designed to meet the space needs for both "dedicated-use" gas pumps (i.e. the business purpose) AND separate general parking spaces (i.e. the zoning requirement). But, make no mistake, they had to meet the parking requirements to get zoning approval prior to beginning construction. In the EV case, the charging stations are a retrofit compromise. They aren't being placed in unallocated space on clean slate property development. They are being put in spaces that the site development designs had already allocated for a separate/distinct, and required, purpose--i.e. parking spaces. Of course no one would design a gas station where the spots at the pump were allocated to also be used as general parking spaces. That would be a terrible design. And if someone were likewise building a bespoke EV charging plaza on undeveloped land, they could make every stall permanently reserved only for charging use if they wished. But THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING. Charging stations are being shoe-horned into an already completed design--often one where the number of "free" parking spaces over the minimum for zoning approval is very low if not already zero or negative--and where they therefore have to "share" the space to meet multiple uses, because otherwise they won't be allowed to build the charging stations at all. It's either share or get nothing because parking is required and charging stations aren't.
It would be nice to have all EVCS be permanently dedicated stalls, but that just doesn't reflect their compromise reality.
It would be nice to have all EVCS be permanently dedicated stalls, but that just doesn't reflect their compromise reality.
Sisko - DS9
Member
Just to advise you... I have not missed anything. What you are saying is nonsense. Are you trying to tell me that over the last, I do not know 20 years or more, there has not been gas stations that have had convienece and fast food places added after to its property, where the design originally wasn't for the that! Seriously! Not all gas stations were designed originally for fast food places. Some of those fast food places at gas stations have only 7-8 spots for people who want to stop and eat. Many gas stations have had renovations (or using your vocabulary, retrofit), done on their existing footprint, to add Tim hortons, A&W, etc. Yes they have a few general parking spaces, I have personally gone to places like these to pick up a burger, etc and the area is crazy busy - especially at a noon hour; and there are people doing the "parking spot circling" waiting for a spot to open, or just simply parking in any open area they can find. Yet they do not park in front of an empty pump to run in and get their order.
The statement you make about how much of a terrible design it would be to have gas pump spots as general parking, shows just how deep-seeded the lack of respect is for the charging pumps. There is no difference in each ones purpose and existence. Gas pumps for giving ICE cars their means of propulsion; and charging pumps to give EVs their means of propulsion. There is an old saying... "What is good for the goose, is good for the gander." There has to be respect for EVs as there are these entitlements for ICE vehicles.
There is no difference to renovating to put in chargers than to renovating gas statiosn to put in food outlets. You are doing exactly what these signs do... provide people with an excuse to consider an EV as a secondaty choice for which deserves to wait at the pleasure of an ICE vehicle driver.
Also, why are you capitalizing your words? that does not make them right because they are capitalized.
Phillip L
Gas Passer
Certainly if I came across such a dual use Supercharger I would encourage all Tesla owners to use the dual purpose spots first, if open, rather than the Tesla only ones.
Moncton S85
Member
Moncton S85
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