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Supercharger - Burbank, CA (Service Center, no longer on nav map)

4SUPER9

MSLR #RN11510 6/7/21
Jun 6, 2013
2,893
2,257
California
Humid air is actually less dense than dry air--humidity is just water vapor (H2O) which displaces the heavier Oxygen (O2) and Nitrogen (N2) molecules that make up most of "air". Its why humidity rises.

Most of the efficiency loss in rain comes from the additional drag/rolling resistance on the tires as they push water out of the way. There's also some component associated with the vehicle impacting a zillion raindrops [which are denser than air] , but its probably pretty small.
Thanks! That is good info.
 

whttiger25

Member
Jun 25, 2016
580
775
Oakland, CA
What is the main reason behind lower efficiency at lower temps? is it lower battey efficiency or more wind resistance from denser, colder air?

Sorry I'm realizing this is now going off topic :-/
 

4SUPER9

MSLR #RN11510 6/7/21
Jun 6, 2013
2,893
2,257
California
What is the main reason behind lower efficiency at lower temps? is it lower battey efficiency or more wind resistance from denser, colder air?

Sorry I'm realizing this is now going off topic :-/
Yes, off topic, but not entirely, because it is about getting enough charge at Burbank, or the ability to bypass it altogether.

In cold weather, in particular, very cold weather, the battery needs to be kept warm. If it is extremely cold, you lose the ability to regen completely, or partially. Also, the one thing in the cabin that uses a tremendous amount of energy is the heating system. Hence why all cars come standard with front row heated seats, which use much less.

Fortunately, cold weather is rarely a problem in So Cal (though it is very much so for me when I go to Mammoth).
 

ggr

Expert in Dunning-Kruger Effect!
Supporting Member
Mar 24, 2011
7,011
28,088
San Diego, CA
Rain has an impact on rolling resistance. It also has an effect on aerodynamics. Humid/wet air is thicker than dry air. The harder the rain, the worse range. Am I correct?
You're correct about rain, being as it is a dense liquid. However you're wrong about humid air being "thicker" than dry air; in fact it is less dense. Pilots have to take this into account regarding performance. But the effect is relatively small; at 30degC saturated air is about 2% less dense than dry air.

To a first approximation, air is 80% N2 and 20% O2, for an average molecular weight of about 28.8. H2O on the other hand weighs about 18. At the above-mentioned 30degC, a bit over 4% of the saturated air is water molecules.
 
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whttiger25

Member
Jun 25, 2016
580
775
Oakland, CA
You're correct about rain, being as it is a dense liquid. However you're wrong about humid air being "thicker" than dry air; in fact it is less dense. Pilots have to take this into account regarding performance. But the effect is relatively small; at 30degC saturated air is about 2% less dense than dry air.

To a first approximation, air is 80% N2 and 20% O2, for an average molecular weight of about 28.8. H2O on the other hand weighs about 18. At the above-mentioned 30degC, a bit over 4% of the saturated air is water molecules.

The real reason being Avogadro's law:

Avogadro's law states that, "equal volumes of all gases, at the same temperature and pressure, have the same number of molecules".
 

Tony8489

Member
Oct 17, 2015
267
369
I dropped by Burbank Service Center this afternoon for a few questions. The broken supercharger was fixed two weeks ago and the charger cords were replaced last week. No throttling incidents since the cords were replaced, even last night and this morning when there were big lines and the chargers were in continuous use. The service center people heard about the throttling constantly when it was happening as they are so convenient for waiting owners to voice their concerns.

Service center people said the Burbank Superchargers are the second busiest worldwide, trailing only San Juan Capistrano.
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,407
859
San Diego, California
Was there yesterday. Some asshole just drove in when someone just left and just took the spot. I was waiting there for 1t minutes. People need to check if there is anyone waiting and also they need to move their car when they are done. I feel like some of these people are to park their car away from the busy streets. Safe to say i am avoiding this supercharger station from now on.
 

LEKTRON

Member
Sep 3, 2016
46
11
San Francisco
Six of us have been waiting for more than an hour for the four available slots. The four cars "supercharging" have been abandoned by their owners. They appear to be just there for long term parking. This is ridiculous. The service center next to the chargers says it's a general problem and tesla customer service says they can't do anything-- surely there's a solution to this?? I have no option but sit here waiting as I don't have a ought charge to make it to any other supercharger and have to get back to the bay area tonight!
 

TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,650
8,911
Austin, TX
The solution should be for Tesla to charge the owner if a car is plugged in and finished supercharging, after a reasonable grace period. Free supercharging for life doesn't mean freedom to block a supercharger stall after you're fully charged.
 
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bmah

Moderator
Supporting Member
Mar 17, 2015
4,244
8,029
Lafayette, CA, USA
That's a damn shame. I can think of various things to do involving social media, photos, VINs, and license plate numbers, but those won't necessarily help you get home sooner. :-(

Does the service center at least have an HPWC you can use? Or a NEMA 14-50? Are there any L2 or L3 chargers on Plugshare close by?

Bruce.
 

JenniferQ

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Sep 13, 2015
1,262
534
San Diego, CA
I had one experience at that SC, and I hope I never have to go there again. Slow, slow charging and lots of people waiting in line. i feel your pain. Best of luck to getting back on the road.
 

rfmurphy81

Member
Jan 2, 2016
453
220
Orange County, CA
@LEKTRON,
I'm sorry about your situation. I've only used this location once, heading up to wine county earlier this year, but I apparently lucked out as all the stalls were working and there were two or three available when I showed up at around 8am. I've determined to skip this location going forward until they either add more stalls AND increase kW capacity, or if they implement a more global solution to prevent people from sitting idle for too long after charging had finished.

I find it hard to believe that Tesla cannot look up who is plugged in there now to determine whether they are actually charging or how long they've been plugged in and/or idle. It seems reasonable that they could call each owner to inform them that their car is taking up space and other owners are unable to get home because of them. Maybe you can call Roadside Assistance and directly ask them if they can look up that information and reach out to those owners on behalf of the others waiting there? Seems like a good opportunity for some education for those owners.

if you're sitting there waiting now, have any owners returned to their cars and been confronted by the waiting owners yet? I'm curious what goes down so please keep us updated!
 

bmah

Moderator
Supporting Member
Mar 17, 2015
4,244
8,029
Lafayette, CA, USA
I find it hard to believe that Tesla cannot look up who is plugged in there now to determine whether they are actually charging or how long they've been plugged in and/or idle. It seems reasonable that they could call each owner to inform them that their car is taking up space and other owners are unable to get home because of them. Maybe you can call Roadside Assistance and directly ask them if they can look up that information and reach out to those owners on behalf of the others waiting there? Seems like a good opportunity for some education for those owners.

They do know. There was an incident a few weeks ago where someone left their fob after charging at a Supercharger. Another owner contacted Roadside Assistance and they were able to look up who had been charging there and call that person so they could come back and retrieve their fob.

Bruce.
 

rfmurphy81

Member
Jan 2, 2016
453
220
Orange County, CA
They do know. There was an incident a few weeks ago where someone left their fob after charging at a Supercharger. Another owner contacted Roadside Assistance and they were able to look up who had been charging there and call that person so they could come back and retrieve their fob.

Bruce.
Ah yes, I think I remember that post. In that case, it should be more than reasonable to ask Tesla to look into it, and address it, if a vehicle has been observed in the space for an hour or more by other waiting owners.
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,407
859
San Diego, California
This is the main reason I rather wait for the slow charging at Tejon ranch just so I can skip burbank on my way back to san Diego. This is absolutely the worst place to supercharge. Plenty of cars and a lot local users. Also people leave their car parked there using them as parking spots so they can have dinner or lunch at their leisure.

If you can avoid it charge somewhere else.
 

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