Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Supercharger - Burlington, WA - 9400 Old Hwy 99 N. (under construction Nov 2023, 16 V4 stalls)

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
There is a new map pin for Q2 2023 for Burlington, WA. I think it might be considered an expansion of the existing site but it is technically listed at 9400 Old Hwy 99 N on the permit, not 9384 like the current site. $130,000 valuation and next door some maybe two of the prefab units for 8 V3 stalls? No direct mention of Tesla but not sure why anyone else would invest that much money for chargers at Bob's Burgers next to an existing Tesla site. Looks to be ready to review so no approval or issuance yet which isn't surprising given a Q2 2023 timeline.

1665094793071.png
 
Would require all sites to be pull through. Redesigning anything submitted already and needing 2-3 times the footprint of current chargers. Not easy and not going to happen anytime soon.

If you are going to design for a trailer, you need to allow for a CT with a 40ft travel trailer. That’s 60ft total. And then needing to be able to pull the trailer through and turn so that’s another 40 ft clear in front of the spot or 100ft. Not happening. And the vast majority of people buying the CT aren’t going to use it for towing so it would be a waste of money and space to design for it at this point.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: Araman0 and PLUS EV
Not at all. A charger like this would only need one, two at the most. Just a simple pull-thru two standard spaces long would cover the vast majority of use cases, that’s very easy to design for before things are submitted, all it needs is a little forethought.

And if you don’t think people are going to be towing with the CT you should go visit the Model X towing subforum and do some browsing. I'm gonna be up here with a trailer several times a year regardless, so yeah, theres already demand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Araman0
Not at all. A charger like this would only need one, two at the most. Just a simple pull-thru two standard spaces long would cover the vast majority of use cases, that’s very easy to design for before things are submitted, all it needs is a little forethought.

And if you don’t think people are going to be towing with the CT you should go visit the Model X towing subforum and do some browsing. I'm gonna be up here with a trailer several times a year regardless, so yeah, theres already demand.
Just because you plan to do something now doesn’t mean it will be practical when it becomes reality. All these future CT are already planning things based on hopes and dreams that no one knows if they will actually become reality and the first thing they will do is come here to complain. All I’m saying is temper expectations. Tesla does what Tesla wants. They have chosen to not do many pull thru stalls for whatever reason (likely what I mentioned above). Nothing we say will change that.

For example, A 500 miles trip is no longer 10 hours. It will become 14 or more with charging. Makes it more of a 2 day trip there and back. Either 2 extra days of a vacation or a 2 day shorter actual vacation not counting travel.

But enough about this, back on topic regarding the charger, it is what it is. More chargers means better pathway to ev adoption. This is a win.
 
I tow our camper to Canada often, and this charger is really the only charger that would allow me to make a single stop ( and not two stops) in order to reach lower BC. I’ve had to awvkardly block the trailer spot in the existing Burlington charger many times before, and it really messes up traffic flow in that lot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Metalhead47
I tow our camper to Canada often, and this charger is really the only charger that would allow me to make a single stop ( and not two stops) in order to reach lower BC. I’ve had to awvkardly block the trailer spot in the existing Burlington charger many times before, and it really messes up traffic flow in that lot.
Which is good data for Tesla, they know every time you tow with your car. And that data hasn’t cumulatively shown they need tow friendly charge spots. Some of it might be that you don’t take long trips as often that would require towing but then Tesla doesn’t see a need based on the data. If you consistently towed, unhooked at a SC to charge and hooked back up, they would be able to compile that data and see a larger need for towing stalls. So far, the only towing specific one I have seen go in is at Santa Nella, CA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Araman0
If you read the info at the link . . . they think so . . .
Compatible with all Tesla chargers (note, only the 14 ft version may be used with Superchargers) and with all Tesla vehicles (within North America and South Korea).


Note: Our 14 ft. Supercharger extension is made with extra-heavy-duty cable to be able to handle the extremely high power requirements of Supercharging. This is the only one which may safely be used at all Tesla chargers including Superchargers.

It's just wire, and the SC are, again, just wire. There's no technical reason a HVDC extension cord can't be used, at least for the non-liquid-cooled use cases.
 
If you read the info at the link . . . they think so . . .


It's just wire, and the SC are, again, just wire. There's no technical reason a HVDC extension cord can't be used, at least for the non-liquid-cooled use cases.
Pretty sure V3 is liquid cooled?


EVSE Adapters needs to specify which Superchargers it is compatible with.
 
If you read the info at the link . . . they think so . . .


It's just wire, and the SC are, again, just wire. There's no technical reason a HVDC extension cord can't be used, at least for the non-liquid-cooled use cases.
Aren’t there overheating issues beyond a certain point tho? That much current over ever-longer wires does get hot, they needed that liquid cooling for a reason, no?
 
Wires don't get hotter (higher temperature) with increased length, they get hotter with increased current. You're probably thinking of those warnings we get with appliances or tools, that have the wire gauge recommendation charts for extension cords. Household power is usually supplied at a fixed voltage to a more-or-less fixed load, and that's not the case for vehicle charging.

Wire has a resistance-per-foot factor, which is lower for larger wires and higher for smaller. If you start out with 350v at a source, 10' down the wire maybe you'd only see 348V; 20' down maybe 345V, and so on. The wire's resistance is converting power into heat. We don't want heat in the wire, we want the power at our load at the end of the wire, so we use a larger wire that has less resistance, so more power ends up at the load and less power gets turned into heat.

In the case of the Tesla car, both the supply voltage and the load is variable. If the car decides to ask for, say, 125 amperes maximum -- and the car does actually do that, that's the way DCFC works -- and if the Supercharger is capable at that moment of doing that -- the SCs have variable capability, based on a whole list of factors -- then the SC will set its output voltage to the battery pack voltage, the contactors in the car and in the SC close, and . . . nothing happens immediately. The voltage on both sides of the cable are the same, no flow. This is done deliberately, to lessen the wear on the contactors.

The SC then raises its output voltage on a ramp, while monitoring the current. It keeps pushing the delivery voltage higher until the agreed-upon maximum current is achieved.

---

The SC "knows" the current-carrying capability of the cable, via installation configuration parameters. It therefore "knows" the maximum current capability it should deliver, and it won't push delivery voltage higher than what the measured maximum amperage is at any given moment. That changes, as the car's battery pack resistance changes: the pack's resistance goes up as it becomes more charged, so the SC has to push delivery voltage higher to achieve that maximum amperage.

What happens when you add an extension cord to the chain? More resistance. The car is communicating with the SC constantly, several messages per second, in effect telling the SC, "keep going, everything looks good here", or "time to slow down, the pack is almost full", and like that. But neither the car nor the SC knows about the extension cord, and neither cares about it.

If the extension cord is of equal wire gauge (is as large as) the SC's own charge cable, the effect is a little more voltage drop across the extension cord, and nothing else. Nothing gets hotter -- as long as the heat dissipation capability of the extension cable is the same as the SC's cable -- more on that below.

---

The car and SC are communicating constantly. I don't know Tesla's protocol, but other DCFC protocols (CCS, CHAdeMO) will sometimes compare notes, eg the charger may say, "I'm sending 350v" and the car may reply "I'm receiving 345v", and if there's enough discrepancy, the charging session can be aborted due to a large enough mismatch of values. Various implementations of the "standards" means that, in the non-Telsa world, it can be possible for a mis-match of a certain magnitude of sent/received voltage to trigger a charge session abort on one manufacturer's charger, but not another. This means that in theory it would be possible in the non-Tesla world for a DCFC extension cable to work OK on one charger but not another. (I am working on a hobbiest level in the CCS world right now, and we run into this a lot: "I love standards, so many to choose from!")

Fortunately, this extension cable supplier only has to deal with testing a single manufacturer's charger: Tesla! So, if it works on one SC, it should work on them all.

I'd be curious to know the technical details of how this extension cable tells the SC to limit the max current to the extension cable's max (it's not a liquid-cooled cable, so I'd guess it can't deliver what a SC's liquid-cooled cable could, without overheating), but in the end I don't need that info, as long as it does it. But it's not the length of the cable that's a concern, as long as it can dissipate heat as well as the SC's cable can.