Supercharger congestion problem ideas.

[Garlan Garner]

Tesla introduces fee for lazy owners who leave their cars at Supercharger stations

Lazy? Really? Who wrote that? How about getting the info straight from the Creator of SC's. Everyone wants a black or white policy so that they don't have to think.

Here is Elons latest tweet.

In reply to Tesla
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 19h19 hours ago


@TeslaMotors We are going to modify this so that people only pay a fee if most bays are occupied. If the site is basically deserted, no problem to park.

288 replies 395 retweets 2,900 likes

 

[Dan Detweiler]

This is an issue that Tesla was bound to have to address at some point. As the number of Tesla vehicles dramatically increases over the next couple of years, behavior that was a non issue suddenly becomes a major problem. I applaud the company for taking the bull by the horns and dealing with it rather than saying it is a user problem so "get over it" as many manufacturers would have I think.

Bottom line, Superchargers were always intended to offer a means that allowed for coast to coast efficient travel. They were never intended as daily local charging stations. That is a user induced behavior. Now that this behavior has begun to cause problems they needed to address and discourage this behavior...and they have. Good for them, good for the rest of us.

Dan

 

[Garlan Garner]

Shouldn't we simply be appreciative of the fact that Tesla has provided SC's at all?

This is an issue that Tesla was bound to have to address at some point. As the number of Tesla vehicles dramatically increases over the next couple of years, behavior that was a non issue suddenly becomes a major problem. I applaud the company for taking the bull by the horns and dealing with it rather than saying it is a user problem so "get over it" as many manufacturers would have I think.

Bottom line, Superchargers were always intended to offer a means that allowed for coast to coast efficient travel. They were never intended as daily local charging stations. That is a user induced behavior. Now that this behavior has begun to cause problems they needed to address and discourage this behavior...and they have. Good for them, good for the rest of us.

Dan

My question is this.

Doesn't the creator of SC's get to say what the bottom line is? Wouldn't it be more prudent to find out the "current" desire of the Owner/Creator and adopt it?

I remember long ago when Elon stated that SC's were intended for long distance travel, however now he's saying something different. Now he's saying...." park there as long as you want so long as you don't interfere with someone else". What's wrong with that? We need to be flexible. When the intent bends......lets bend with it.
Lets not be so rigid.

 

[Model 3]

... however now he's saying something different.

What? Where and when did he say that Superchargers are no longer intended for long distance travels?

Please provide a link to the source of this statement.

 

[Garlan Garner]

What? Where and when did he say that Superchargers are no longer intended for long distance travels?


288 replies 395 retweets 2,900 likesthis statement.

Here is Elons latest tweet that accompanies his earlier statement that Tesla doesn't care who uses SC's now that as of Jan 1 2017 orderers- there will be an annual allotment of local SC use for whatever reason and then a charge after that - however LD travel will always be free. I'll try to find it on youtube.

NOW they are modifying their "anti-park" statement to say ....hey we don't care if folks park in a SC forever so long as they don't interfere with someone else's ability to use it - once their car is charged. If you are parked at a SC fully charged - and interfere with someone else...then you will get charged. Basically you will get charged for a lack of ethics. Elon has to do some parenting of some adults.

In reply to Tesla
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 19h19 hours ago


@TeslaMotors We are going to modify this so that people only pay a fee if most bays are occupied. If the site is basically deserted, no problem to park.

 

[jerry33]

What kind of metered spot are you referring to that has been around for generations?

The first parking meter was installed July 16, 1935.

 

[zenmaster]

What kind of metered spot are you referring to that has been around for generations?

Are you serious?

 

[KJD]

I remember long ago when Elon stated that SC's were intended for long distance travel, however now he's saying something different. Now he's saying...." park there as long as you want so long as you don't interfere with someone else". What's wrong with that? We need to be flexible. When the intent bends......lets bend with it.
Lets not be so rigid.

People will abuse it and make lame excuses for not moving their car.
Keep it simple and move the car as soon as its done charging. No exceptions needed.

 

[JeffK]

People will abuse it and make lame excuses for not moving their car.
Keep it simple and move the car as soon as its done charging. No exceptions needed.

If I'm filling up with gasoline and I go into the convenience store and the pump stops because the tank is full do the gas station police come and rough me up? If there were huge lines and all the stalls are filled I can see people getting agitated otherwise it shouldn't matter.

That same is to be true for the superchargers. That's not saying it's ok to park it there for hours on end. It's simply that if I park and run an errand I don't need to be back at that exact minute.

Same is true for metered spots, statistically speaking, if I arrive back 5-10 minutes late, chances are I will not have a ticket waiting on my window and the world will keep spinning.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

If I'm filling up with gasoline and I go into the convenience store and the pump stops because the tank is full do the gas station police come and rough me up? If there were huge lines and all the stalls are filled I can see people getting agitated otherwise it shouldn't matter.

That same is to be true for the superchargers. That's not saying it's ok to park it there for hours on end. It's simply that if I park and run an errand I don't need to be back at that exact minute.

Same is true for metered spots, statistically speaking, if I arrive back 5-10 minutes late, chances are I will not have a ticket waiting on my window and the world will keep spinning.

There will be a five minute buffer once the charge is complete. At some point the owner has to take responsibility. Come on folks, I know adulting can be hard sometimes but...

One of my favorite quotes is that "you can't legislate morality". That being said, you sure as heck can charge/punish those that take advantage of a situation to the detriment of others. I am 100% behind this move. For the betterment of ALL owners something needed to be done. People have been complaining about this problem for years in certain parts of the country. Kudos to Tesla for being proactive before the Model 3 goes into mass production.

Dan

 

[JeffK]

There will be a five minute buffer once the charge is complete.

Exactly, Elon gets it. Some people in this forum want to start charging before you even park.

 

[AZGirl]

JeffK said :
"If I'm filling up with gasoline and I go into the convenience store and the pump stops because the tank is full do the gas station police come and rough me up? If there were huge lines and all the stalls are filled I can see people getting agitated otherwise it shouldn't matter.
That same is to be true for the superchargers. That's not saying it's ok to park it there for hours on end. It's simply that if I park and run an errand I don't need to be back at that exact minute."

If it was a busy SC I would be prudent about how far away I went on my errand and how long it took. If there are others waiting to use the SuperCharger then, It would be inappropriate, not to mention rude, to leave the SC area and return to car 20 minutes after you are done charging. Common courtesy to move when done and allow others to promptly charge their car.

I would linger near the SC area if I saw it was busy or getting busy. If it was not busy when I started charging, but then other cars arrived and were waiting while I was in a nearby shop or on an errand and oblivious to the que, I think it is a great solution for Tesla to alert me via phone when my car is almost done charging to allow time to get back and move the car. Charging people who don't value the time of other owners who are there waiting for your spot Is OK with me so Tesla providing a 5 minute leeway before charging a "parking" fee makes sense.

 

[mhan00]

People will abuse it and make lame excuses for not moving their car.
Keep it simple and move the car as soon as its done charging. No exceptions needed.

Agreed. I think Elon is making a mistake by not making the policy unilateral regardless of stall occupancy. For one, SC stalls are commonly iced at various locations, so a location could read as available to charge, but in reality four spots are iced and the other four are filled with locals camping out while others are stuck waiting. Two, someone is going to wake up one morning pissed off with a 200 dollar bill from Tesla because when he plugged in at night only two spots were filled and then after he fell asleep a few more Teslas pulled up for a charge after a concert or some other event finished. Three, a true dick might actually park in a way to make three or four SC stalls unavailable for charging (we already see this with some people in parking lots who think it's okay to take up several spots for their car, either because they suck at parking or worry excessively about people parking next to them and singing their doors). Four, dicks could also unplug their car and stay there and a driver who would legitimately be willing to move might not know that and not realize that he needs to move his car because the SClocation is reading as clear.

Unless Tesla is willing to start working with local tow companies to clear problems, Better to train people as soon as possible that it's never okay to park in a SC spot and to move their car as soon as they're done. It won't be as big of an issue now, but after the III launch it could get ugly. I also think Tesla might also have to adjust their policy in the future to start charging for the spot after the car reaches 90 or 95 percent by adding a premium to whatever they're going to charge for electricity, since thatlast 10 percent takes as long as the previous 90.

 

[Topher]

If I'm filling up with gasoline and I go into the convenience store and the pump stops because the tank is full do the gas station police come and rough me up?

Let's hope so. Metaphorically, of course. When pumping flammable liquid into your car, you are supposed to be paying attention to it. There are laws to that effect (in my area, at least).

Thank you kindly.

 

[AZGirl]

Regarding above post, I honestly don't think I have ever seen someone who was pumping gas leave their car alone and head into the store. Yes, someone might set the pump handle to auto-pump and then wash their front window or otherwise piddle around the car, but never leave the immediate area of the car.

I did see someone years ago who was auto-pumping and standing near the driver door who had to rush around the car to disengage the handle because the auto turn off feature did not work and gas began gushing out! Made an impression because I was filling up on the other side and I was soon standing in a huge gas puddle!

 

[Model 3]

Here is Elons latest tweet that accompanies his earlier statement that Tesla doesn't care who uses SC's now that as of Jan 1 2017 orderers- there will be an annual allotment of local SC use for whatever reason and then a charge after that - however LD travel will always be free. I'll try to find it on youtube.

Yes, I know this. But it does NOT change anything about what the supercharger network is intended to serve. It is basically an admission in that Tesla can not detail regulate how it is used, and replaced the "unlimited free for life" with "limited to 400kWh/year free for life" supercharger access. Then it's up to the customer to spend that free amount as they please, and if they still uses it as a "home charger" they have to pay up and thereby help Tesla expand the supercharger station more then they would have if it was only used as intended.

NOW they are modifying their "anti-park" statement to say ....hey we don't care if folks park in a SC forever so long as they don't interfere with someone else's ability to use it

He did not say he did not care, just that - to use his own words: "If the site is basically deserted, no problem to park.". See? "No problem", not "It's ok" or "we intend to let cars stay at supercharger stalls forever for free" or "we build this supercharger stations to give our customers free parking space". The supercharger network is still intended for charging, not parking. But as long as it is not a problem with a parked car at the charging stall, then there is not a problem, and they may not need to charge the customer any fee.

So your statement was false:

Elon stated that SC's were intended for long distance travel, however now he's saying something different.

He does not say anything different, the SC's is still intended to serve long distance travel and not "home charging" or "free parking space". He has done what can be done about local charging by changing the supercharging policy from next year. He has done what he can about the problem with cars left parking for hours after finished charging - where it is a problem. When it's not a problem, then there is no problem to solve.... even if it is not intended used like that.

 

[Drone Flyer]

If I'm filling up with gasoline and I go into the convenience store and the pump stops because the tank is full do the gas station police come and rough me up? If there were huge lines and all the stalls are filled I can see people getting agitated otherwise it shouldn't matter.

That same is to be true for the superchargers. That's not saying it's ok to park it there for hours on end. It's simply that if I park and run an errand I don't need to be back at that exact minute.

Same is true for metered spots, statistically speaking, if I arrive back 5-10 minutes late, chances are I will not have a ticket waiting on my window and the world will keep spinning.

Wrong!
If gas pumps at a service station are tied up, then a driver only has to go across the street to get to another gas station.
If a SC is tied up, all the stalls, then the owner has to drive another two hours or so to get to the next SC.
If he's running low on electrons, could be a big issue,
There's absolutely no similarities at all!

 

[JeffK]

If gas pumps at a service station are tied up, then a driver only has to go across the street to get to another gas station.

haha I see you've never been around during a gas shortage... It doesn't always work like that.

It's happened several times throughout the years...

 

[MP3Mike]

Regarding above post, I honestly don't think I have ever seen someone who was pumping gas leave their car alone and head into the store.

I see it happen all the time. People start pumping gas and then go into the convenience store to get a ginormous cup of flavored HFCS and other junk food. (And/or to use the restroom while their car fills up.)

 

[JeffK]

I see it happen all the time. People start pumping gas and then go into the convenience store to get a ginormous cup of flavored HFCS and other junk food. (And/or to use the restroom while their car fills up.)

Yeah, plus even if they finish pumping then walk in, it's the same deal as the car sits in the spot instead of being moved. This is especially the case in the Midwest where it's still normal for people to walk in and pay after filling up their tank.