Supercharger congestion, your experiences

[TestPilot]

I don't have my Tesla yet, but happened through South Mimms yesterday, looked at the Supercharger out of interest.

It was a busy day in general. On our arrival half the stalls were full, about 20 minutes later, all but one were full.

What's your experience of busyness at superchargers? And are you worried at all about them getting busier?

 

[iconic_tb]

I used to charge there quite frequently on my way to London. Weekends were always busy, especially during lunch as people tend to go there to eat as well. I had to wait a couple of times so I assume this will get a lot worse with M3. There is definitely a need for more charges around that area.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I do 30,000 miles a year, 10% at supercharger, in 3 years I have had to wait once, and on one other occasions I have had the last stall and someone else arrived an waited (but that was a 2 stall site ... I avoid them now)

Wait time is short - 40 minutes average charge time (I almost never charge that long)? 8 stalls, that's someone leaving every 5 minutes

Model-3 can use any CCS (in fact Ionity is faster). Currently very few 100+kW 3rd party sites in UK, but more coming soon - so choice increasing. Tesla also bullish about their rollout rate (c.f. Tesla updates map of upcoming Supercharger stations - showing where it's going next - Electrek ) , but they have always undelivered on that in the past (notwithstanding that Supercharger is still light-years ahead of the competition - I keep asking myself why the rest of the pack still aren't in sight?)

 

[LEE3]

Does anyone know how much a super charging session would cost with the Model 3 and how that compares to non Tesla charging networks? Is there a significant discount for an M3 to use a Tesla charger versus other available networks? I guess if there is, one way of balancing the demand once 5000 new model 3’s arrive would be to make the Tesla charge cost similar to that of other providers.

 

[MrBadger]

Its on the car display and when I played, the ones that I were looking at were between 21p and 24p per kWh. So more expensive than home.

I just checked the Tesla supercharger web page map and that does not give pricing.

Like other bits of Tesla, billing seems to be a bit hit and miss - many US people report they often do not get billed. Although it was hinted that Tesla read the forum and soon after this was posted, they sorted the problem...

 

[WannabeOwner]

Does anyone know how much a super charging session would cost with the Model 3 and how that compares to non Tesla charging networks?

Generally speaking:

Tesla adhoc Supercharger rate no more expensive than others
Tesla faster (until competition rollout actually happens,and is widespread)
Tesla WAY more convenient - park-plugin-walkaway (it has taken me 20 minutes to connect to 3rd party - and there have been plenty of times when 3rd party connect failed. I have never had a failure with Supercharger [I've had some stalls running slowly and just moved to another stall])

Much of the 3rd party stuff is still hellbent on getting people to take out a monthly subscription (intention being that that is exclusive presumably). Non-subscription, e.g. contactless, is generally more expensive (in the case of BP Chargemaster it is 2x as expensive!)

 

[WannabeOwner]

I just checked the Tesla supercharger web page map and that does not give pricing.

I found this which says says 24p / kWh

Supercharging

 

[TestPilot]

I do 30,000 miles a year, 10% at supercharger, in 3 years I have had to wait once, and on one other occasions I have had the last stall and someone else arrived an waited (but that was a 2 stall site ... I avoid them now)

Wait time is short - 40 minutes average charge time (I almost never charge that long)? 8 stalls, that's someone leaving every 5 minutes

Model-3 can use any CCS (in fact Ionity is faster). Currently very few 100+kW 3rd party sites in UK, but more coming soon - so choice increasing. Tesla also bullish about their rollout rate (c.f. Tesla updates map of upcoming Supercharger stations - showing where it's going next - Electrek ) , but they have always undelivered on that in the past (notwithstanding that Supercharger is still light-years ahead of the competition - I keep asking myself why the rest of the pack still aren't in sight?)

I'm unlikely to use public charging often, but from videos I have watched, it seems that you're more likely to have random charging stops with the 3rd party ones?

Generally speaking:

Tesla adhoc Supercharger rate no more expensive than others
Tesla faster (until competition rollout actually happens,and is widespread)
Tesla WAY more convenient - park-plugin-walkaway (it has taken me 20 minutes to connect to 3rd party - and there have been plenty of times when 3rd party connect failed. I have never had a failure with Supercharger [I've had some stalls running slowly and just moved to another stall])

Much of the 3rd party stuff is still hellbent on getting people to take out a monthly subscription (intention being that that is exclusive presumably). Non-subscription, e.g. contactless, is generally more expensive (in the case of BP Chargemaster it is 2x as expensive!)

The 3rd part charger bugout problem is one reason that I went for Tesla, I don't want to have to sit and wait with the car for 40 minutes, I want to walk away, take a leak, have some food, come back and leave.

 

[WannabeOwner]

many US people report they often do not get billed

I have read that you can set up a credit card on your My Tesla, and if you don't they'll catch up with you at next service.

 

[WannabeOwner]

it seems that you're more likely to have random charging stops with the 3rd party ones?

Some other brands that is definitely happening. not sure about Tesla - may not be much 3rd party charging experience to go on off course ... but there have definitely been some issues. My gut-feeling is that Tesla have been quick to fix them OTA. Bjorn recently posted a video about a problem he has with Ionity chargers (some metal expansion causes Ionity chargers to stop whereas other chargers carry on at that point), and the boss man of Ionity was happy to be interviewed so I think that bodes well. Teething problems in the main I think ... but I would monitor any 3rd party charge (i.e. whilst having a coffee) in case ti aborted. Also: I have used pumps with time limits - typically 60 minutes (which about says it all to me as I have never had a need to stop at Supercharger for anything like 60 minutes! but I have had to restart a second 60 minute session at 3rd party)

iPace (to pick one) users report all sorts of difficulty - pretty much all high-speed stalls in Scotland and all Ecotricity motorway ones don't work for most owners ... seems to be that Jag don't think they need to fix it ("Legacy kit, provider needs to upgrade" but users are saying "How do we drive Motorway / Scotland in the meantime" ...)

So much for CCS standards compliance ...

I don't want to have to sit and wait with the car for 40 minutes, I want to walk away, take a leak, have some food, come back and leave.

Just a point to add (for anyone else who stumbles over this) current 3rd party charging is (until widespread 100+kW, or better, rollout has happened) mostly 50kW or less. Supercharger is 120kW ... so its a long leak and a big meal

For anyone that has to do Emails (i.e. would do them anyway first thing on arrival) its pretty time neutral. The time for a long rest for the driver is just additional tedium for passengers ...

 

[TestPilot]

...Time for a long rest for the driver is just additional tedium for passengers ...

Yeah, I'm struggling enough to keep this purchase wife approved. Difficulties and delays travelling will not go down well....

 

[Beady3647]

On my old MS I charged almost exclusively at SC for nearly three years - it was free and convenient! 99% was at Hopwood (M42) with 16 stalls. The most I ever saw there were eight MS and MX. With the vast surge in M3 I would imagine that things will get a lot busier obviously. However, when I started SC was unlimited and free. My new MS and I believe all other new models have a limit on free SC. Paying the SC Kwh rate does not make sense unless it is unavoidable as charging at home should cost a lot less and be a lot more convenient albeit at a slower rate than SC.

If I were to make a (fairly) educated guess, I would say that with the (hopefully) advent of new SC stations things won't change a great deal except at peak times which are yet to be determined.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Difficulties and delays travelling will not go down well....

I've had that conversation:

Wife : "How long is this going to take"
Himself: "20 minutes"
"<sigh> Really?"
"We used to stop once a week for petrol, that's 8 hours a year. Now we supercharge for 20 minutes twice a month, which is 8 hours a year"
"That's completely different"

 

[MrBadger]

I have read that you can set up a credit card on your My Tesla, and if you don't they'll catch up with you at next service.

The card by default is the one they took the £2k from. So if you want to use a different card for SC, you need to change it on your account.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The card by default is the one they took the £2k from. So if you want to use a different card for SC, you need to change it on your account.

My Daughter's car's order was on My Tesla. I'd better check that

 

[Peteski]

I've never had to queue for a SuC, but I don't use them all that often.

 

[Jason71]

Maybe Superchargers should have

I've had that conversation:

Wife : "How long is this going to take"
Himself: "20 minutes"
"<sigh> Really?"
"We used to stop once a week for petrol, that's 8 hours a year. Now we supercharge for 20 minutes twice a month, which is 8 hours a year"
"That's completely different"

No one ever talks about the REAL cost of supercharging i.e that you have to buy the wife and kids a Costa at motorway prices while waiting. The most you cop for at a petrol station is a packet of mint imperials. And don't give me that "take a flask line". That's fine when you are on your own but its no defence against the "well if you could afford to buy this car I think you can afford to buy us a drink" gambit

 

[Rob R]

Does anyone know how much a super charging session would cost with the Model 3 and how that compares to non Tesla charging networks? Is there a significant discount for an M3 to use a Tesla charger versus other available networks? I guess if there is, one way of balancing the demand once 5000 new model 3’s arrive would be to make the Tesla charge cost similar to that of other providers.

Tesla are 20p per kWh at present I think, cf maybe 15p at home, standard tariff. So £10 for 50kWh, which is likely to be about the most it is worth waiting for at a supercharger. That's about 200 miles range in summer. Non-Tesla CCS will usually be more unless you can find free charging, which will likely die out for rapids in the next 2 or 3 years. Say £12 to £25? Always read the small print though.
If you mostly charge on the Octopus EV tariff at home, that range would cost about £2.50.
In Scotland, where rapids are free (currently), Tesla owners without free supercharging usually charge at ChargePlace Scotland and ignore the superchargers. Takes longer though.

 

[Jason71]

in just over a year Tesla has sold roughly the same number of model 3's as it has sold model S and X combined since they started production.
Doing a dodgy extrapolation from that it seems easily possible that Model 3's in the UK could equal the number of Model S and X vehicles or exceed it by 2020. With the company car tax breaks and general increase in EV adoption. I could see a scenario where by 2021 there are 4 times the number of Teslas in the UK that there were at the start of 2019. I don't see supercharger numbers quadrupling in that time.
Obviously there are lots of other factors to consider that impact the equation for better or worse:

• No free supercharging on new cars (plus)
• more 3rd party high speed chargers (plus)
• Model 3 with new BIK rules is firmly within Rep territory and they can cover a lot of miles (minus)
• charging times are going down (V3) (plus)
• etc

Overall I can't see how the likelihood of congestion at superchargers won't go up dependant on where you are. Especially in the south east once PHEV's are kicked off the London congestion charge exemption in 2021. On the other hand I think the likes of Shifnal and Bridgend will probably be just fine for a while.

 

[WannabeOwner]

And don't give me that "take a flask line

Blast ... I was just typing that I'm too disorganised to even remember to take my own cup for a discount ...

Tesla are 20p per kWh at present I think

24p according to Tesla website (which isn't renound for being accurate ). But I think?? that is "into battery" rather than "from the stall", so might be 20p-equivalent-home-charge ?

I don't see supercharger numbers quadrupling in that time.

Devils advocate: I've been the only car charging at 8+ stall Superchargers on many occasions, and I can't remember the last time I had to "pair". Not the same as "worst case / at peak" of course ...

I'm also not sure how new fleet of Model-3's compares to existing fleet of Model-S/X

Existing owners have a high %age of free supercharger use. I never hurry to leave when Supercharging - if my journey plan is to arrive with 10% i typically wait until I have 20% arrival-SOC-predicted "just to be sure". I see people on the phone / emailing etc. they may well be filling up way past what they actually need. People may be more thoughtful when they are paying.

On busy sites in USA Supercharging is restricted to 80% SoC, and overstay charges are charged. I have no idea how many people are filling above 80% at present - not me, I value my time more, but I have a big battery, folk with e.g. 75 kWh may be needing to charge 80+% to reach destination.

Also: will Mr and Mrs Average Model-3 Owner be out of range often (compared to Model-S/X owner)? I Supercharge 10% of my miles ... maybe that is a lot more than future Model-3 owners will? LR M3 has better range than 75kWh Model-S/X I think?

And Model-3 owners can charge at any CCS site of course ... as Ionity etc. roll out good solutions that will spread the load. You may choose more on convenience of location of charger, and/or facilities nearby, than giving Tesla your custom?

Supercharger is a big USP for Tesla. I have no idea how they have afforded it, but I don't see them slowing down. Ionity is messing around installing 4-stall sites. Tesla haven't opened a 4 stall site in UK for 4 years !!

Existing Superchargers have been modified to charge 15% (I think??) faster. Cars have been modified OTA to pre-heat battery so that they charge at optimal speed immediate on arrival, another 10-15% ... so that reduced the dwell-time.

And Supercharger V3 is coming, so new sites may have those - even shorter dwell times

Not sure about Rep. For travelling salesman (1hour+ at every stop) winter range will be terrible

For anyone worried about it then stick it in the Man maths justification for a bigger battery