TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Supercharger cost (Ontario Generally) vs Home Charging (Toronto)

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Birdman325, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. wayner

    wayner Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,493
    Location:
    Toronto
    Apparently it is illegal in Ontario for 3rd parties to sell electricty. Tesla doesn't want to provoke the 'lectricity cops. They are almost as bad as the phone cops.
     
  2. pcons

    pcons Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Burlington, Ontario, Canada
    Strange....by the minute or by the khw you are still paying for electricity, but loopholes are called that for a reason :)

    At least it's an explanation as to why all chargers are this way in ontario. Having owned a volt for 4 years, which is limited to a 3 kw charge rates, it has never made any sense to use one of the public stations that charge by time since their rates are based off of cars that can charge 2-3x faster. Couple that with the fact that they usually charge a few $ per hour, and it never makes sense to charge a volt there since gas is cheaper in that comparison since you end up paying almost 10x the cost of charging at home.
     
  3. wayner

    wayner Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,493
    Location:
    Toronto
    @mknox knows the details on this. He used to work for an electrical utility. Here is a post he made on this subject: Canadian supercharger rates
    "Not sure about Alberta, but in Ontario, the OEB regulates the sector and you have to be a licensed retailer to sell electricity by the kWh, but you don't necessarily have to be a utility."
     
  4. MagicDog

    MagicDog Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Toronto
    Units are minutes in this case.
     
  5. pcons

    pcons Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Burlington, Ontario, Canada
    Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying. So tier 1 is any speed up to 60 kw, and 2 is up to 120 kw...so just for fun (and cause I'm working this out as I type) let's say on average you get 90 kw for tier 2 and 50 for tier 1 (random numbers) that would have been 26/60 x 90 = 39kwh + 9/60 x 50 = 7.5 kwh, so total of about 46.5 kwh....

    Since the supercharging is direct DC can you assume minimal charging loss into the battery? (Unlike L2 charging, which typically has a 15-20% loss from wall to battery..)

    So, assuming the above the avg cost per kwh for that session was 12.21/46.5 = $0.26/kwh...actually not bad then. About 2x home use off peak, but makes me more likely to use it at that price...when I eventually get my car that is :)
     
  6. rapoport3a

    rapoport3a Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    372
    Location:
    Ontario
    #26 rapoport3a, Aug 12, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
    Where I am in S. Ont., the off-peak rate is presently about 9.435 cents, all in. That includes all the per kWh charges plus taxes. It does not include fixed charges that occur regardless of how much energy you draw. I'm led to believe that across S. Ont. the rates are similar --- but you have to do several calculations to get the right rate, and the data you need probably aren't all on your electricity bill.

    (In 2016, the off-peak cost here was 13.609 cents.)
     
  7. rapoport3a

    rapoport3a Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    372
    Location:
    Ontario
    I offer a few more corrections, from my experience, which includes driving a Tesla for four years and metering the electricity at home for two:

    1. The electricity price at home off peak is probably not 10% of the gasoline price. For the Model S it seems in the 20% range if gasoline is at about $1.30 and you compare to a gasoline car of similar size.

    2. The loss going from AC to the car isn't likely near 20%. Comparing my metering to what the car indicates (again, an S), the loss varies a lot depending on conditions but seems to average 10%. The car doesn't indicate electricity use for anything but km, and that's an approximation. So 10% may not be right, but it's probably closer than 15%.

    3. Some states allow SCh rates to go by the kWh but many do not. No province does, AFAIK, for the reasons Mike Knox has discussed.

    Kudos to the people trying to figure out what the true SCh electricity cost is in Ontario. It does seem different for the Model 3, which I haven't charged.
     
  8. Whisky

    Whisky Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    With the recent road trip, we went about 5000km/3000miles from Toronto down to New Orleans, Florida, and then back-up. There were a few instances where we used a wall-plug to help charge the model 3, but this trip was almost entirely supported by superchargers. The total bill came-out to just under $120 US. Some states had the cheaper charge options, but many had the two-tiered like in Canada. As others have said on the forum, we never needed to go to 100% charge and keeping the car between 20% to 80% is much cheaper than the gas would have been spent on this trip (because of how long it takes to charge from between 80% to 100%).

    Most places, at peak charge-rates, we consistently received 700km/h of charging and then it gradually went down as we got closer to 80% power.
     
  9. MagicDog

    MagicDog Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Toronto
    I think your arithmetic is pretty close. I don't recall exactly, but I probably charged from 15% / 20% to ~80%. So around 60% of the battery was charged. 75 kWh X ~60% = ~45kWh.
     
  10. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,095
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    You also need to realize that Supercharger stations are large commercial electric services and will attract Demand Charges from the utility that supplies the electricity. Demand Charges can be higher than the volumetric Energy (kWh) charges on these types of services. It is not really an apples-to-apples comparison to your home residential electricity rate.
     
  11. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,095
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Further, you have to be registered with Measurement Canada to sell electricity. Details here.
     
  12. 5_+JqckQttqck

    5_+JqckQttqck Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1,572
    Location:
    Toronto
    Supercharged at the Sherway Garden SC yesterday morning. Did a few minutes under 60kW with a white Model X plugged in a few stalks down. After they left, it was 72kW for the rest of the time.

    Did a search and found we're charged base on time @ x kW. So above 60kW = $0.40/min while under 60kW = $0.20/min.

    I stopped it at $15.00 CAD and got about 285kms. Total charge time was ~30 minutes? So lets say there was a 5% lost. $5.00/100km is roughly half the cost of gas at the station for that same 100km on my Honda Civic; not bad. Can't wait to get the home charger online and see even more savings off peak overnight.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC