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Supercharger Coverage Misleading ?

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by Kevin Harney, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    This was recently put out by TM. Seems to be about a 200 mile radius. Isn't that a little misleading ? You can get to most of those places but its a one way trip and you can't charge at most of them and keep going. I can see it both ways and yes this is more dramatic but IMHO less accurate. I will concede it is probably technically true but not really usable distances. :confused: :eek: :scared:

    Model S coverage.JPG
     
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    All depends upon the viewers assumptions. A single map really doesn't tell the full story.
    The map very accurately shows all the areas where you could reach a supercharger.

    It may not show all the areas you could make a round trip starting at a supercharger.

    To be completely accurate you would want the red zones to vary depending upon purpose, starting location, temperature, road conditions, wind direction and speed, drive time, and they shouldn't be spheres, they should track miles based on road distance, not "as the crow flies" distance.

    So yes, any map Tesla puts out is inaccurate, if you expect them to tell the complete story.
     
  3. araxara

    araxara S-P85#3,218 X-90D#3,299

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    Yes. Using 125mi (using Superchargers) brings up a more realistic coverage map:
    Superchargers with 125mi radius.png
     
  4. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    I feel a more reasonable number to put in for range radius is 85 miles for an 85 and 60 miles for a 60. Few roads are straight, and few go directly from Supercharger to Supercharger. Also, it is a real pain to charge to 100% and drive 55 mph.

    Here is my 85 mile radius map. If the circles overlap, you have a good chance of making it from one Supercharger to the next.

    Supercharger-85.jpg
     
  5. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Well, it depends on your goals. Though I use 80 miles as well, I've noticed that there isn't much of a difference in SuperCharger->SuperCharger reachability between the 85 mile map and the 125 mile map. And it's also a matter as to what you're comparing it to.

    So e.g. one case I can see that your map says you can't reach where the 125 mile map says it can is the under-construction charger in Mobile, AL and Baton Rouge. Ok, fair enough, they're 195 miles apart - that's a real stretch... But, compared to any other charge option available out there, you'll still be much better off taking it slower and driving SuperCharger to SuperCharger.


    There are also other problems - let's say you live in Beckley, WV. Even on the 125m map you would be out of luck, and shouldn't be owning a Model S. But in reality you would have > 10 SuperChargers in range - in every direction. In that way the Tesla map is actually the most accurate.

    There isn't really one map to rule them all. It all depends.
     
  6. Jdcleary

    Jdcleary Member

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    Just returned from Phoenix and drove from Santa Rosa Supercharger to Shamrock Supercharger (266 miles) and had 19 rated miles left. Yes it's doable but required a 20 mph SW wind and some painfully slow driving at times. Sure could have used one more Supercharger at Tucumcari or Amarillo.
     
  7. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Okay, I must be missing something here. I don't have the car or any experience driving on Superchargers, but I'm not understanding your logic here at all. To get from one supercharger to the next is a one way trip, right?

    So anything that's in reach of a full charge should be viable going from one station to the next (though I understand the last 20% takes a long time to charge if you need it.)

    Why are you thinking you can only count on 85 miles for a full charge?

    If you'd been saying this was how far away from the Supercharger you could visit a tourist attraction and come back I'd understand (though even then, 170 miles seems to be on the conservative side except for extremely bad weather...)

    What am I missing?
    Walter
     
  8. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    It's a point-of-no-return radius.

    From one SuperCharger you can reach everything in the blue circle and return to the same SuperCharger -OR- you can drive into an adjacent circle and go to that supercharger instead. So the 85 mile circle still allows a 170 mile trip, by looking at where 2 circles touch or overlap.

    This method shows both point-of-no-return and SuperCharger reachability on the same map. If you just make the radius 170 miles, you'll see SuperCharger reachability, but can't deduce point-of-no-return from there.
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Nebraska looks plain wrong on the pink map.
     
  10. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    #10 scaesare, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
    I wouldn't say misleading.

    Given that Superchargers have been touted as enabling long distance road trips, and that destination(and origination) charging are quantified separately, I don't think that portrayal of superchargers is misleading.

    I can start a road trip within any one of those circles that has L1/L2 charging, and end it at any destination within one of those circles that has similar destination charging. Thus those circles cover the scenario of enabling a road trip along the way.
     
  11. mmccord

    mmccord Member

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    But the route isn't always as direct as it would seem. For instance, NYC to Pittsburgh is possible via superchargers, but it's a much longer drive than it should be.
     
  12. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    I don't read that map as insinuating otherwise. I suspect most people reading that map should be able to intuit what the center-points of those circles imply.
     
  13. CSFTN

    CSFTN Member

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    Well, as all politics are local, my attention to this map is local. The email shows a red dot in Nashville, with a radius around it that reaches to Memphis.

    There's no Nashville, charger, yet, unless we all missed it. The map doesn't appear to include known destination chargers, (there's 2 publicly available HPWCs in Nashville, and 1 in Jackson MS) so my attention is whetted ... mistake or is there actually a supercharger about to open in Nashville? Or, does this map include ALL 'coming soon' SCs throughout the country?
     
  14. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Exactly!

    Rarely do roads go straight from one location to another. The overhead of non-straight line routes can be anywhere from 5% to 100%, with typical overheads in the 10% to 20% level. For a detailed analysis, use EV Trip Planner

    In reality, to do fast travel, Superchargers really need to be in the 100-133 road mile distance apart. See SuperCharging starts to feel slow for some discussion, in particular, my comments at SuperCharging starts to feel slow - Page 2.
     
  15. smartypnz

    smartypnz Member

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    Actually, there are quite a few non-existent SC's on the pink map. Strange that Tesla released to us via e-mail. Could use an occasional 'up to date' map from Tesla.

    Supercharge.info appears to be the most reliable. Building cars is what Tesla seems to do best (and that's a good thing) - communication has always been lacking. When they finally reach a point where they do start advertising, hopefully they will hire a first-rate agency and not do it in-house.
     
  16. basf_audio

    basf_audio Member

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    For us Missouri folks stuck without any chargers in the middle of the state and Saint Louis pending for another 10 days - there's no way you could drive from Kansas City to Memphis. Heck - you can't even drive from Saint Louis to Memphis even with the SuperCharger available in Saint Louis. - So those maps are misleading to have Missouri painted red. It's purely radius and not mapped to any routes. It'll get better I'm sure - but it's misleading and disingenuous to those that know the real gaps in routes.
     
  17. Gwgan

    Gwgan Almost a wagon

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    All that last email did was spark a conversation at work among the interested potential owners about how there is still no way to supercharge out of the midcoast (Maine) area, leaving cars unordered.
     
  18. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    I think it's missleading and unhelpful to show the 200 mile radius. Sure you can reach a point 200 miles away from a SuC but that's not what most people would consider 'coverage'. If I'm 100 miles away from a Supercharger, I would be within what Tesla claims to be 'coverage' but it would not at all enable me to drive using Superchargers unless I'm heading directly to one which is unlikely. Only traffic that happens to goes through a Supercharger is covered, but all other traffic within that 200 mile radius is not covered.
     
  19. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Disagree.

    Your last sentence is exactly right - the map is only showing the area that can reach the Supercharger or can be reached from the Supercharger, and covers an area that exceeds the car's point to point range without an out of the way stop at the Supercharger.

    However, since the point of the map is to show that folks in the shaded area can jump on the Supercharger chain and jump off in the other side of the country, I would argue that the 200 mile circle is entirely appropriate - all the people there should be easily able to reach the Supercharger, and from any point on the Supercharger chains you should be able to reach any point in the shaded area, although in some cases the route is rather indirect.

    Closer spacing is helpful, and nearly inevitable if Tesla reaches full Model 3 production in a few years without major issues - but for showing where you can go, 200 miles makes perfect sense to me.
    Walter
     
  20. CSFTN

    CSFTN Member

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    Except even then it's incorrect. Eg There's no charger with 300 miles of Memphis, and yet we are (just barely) in the pink. Buddy of mine drove his Model S to Nashville without stopping, and apparently without much paying attention either. Didn't make the 220 miles - had to call a flat bed. Now, in 4 months, maybe there will be 2 or even 3 chargers roughly 200 miles away, no plans published for anything closer until 2016. I'm using this as an example, there's plenty of other pink areas that shouldn't be.
     

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