NigelM
Recovering Member
The implication there is that someone might give up their newer pack and drive away on their road trip with an older (limited to 90kW) pack.....:scared:
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The implication there is that someone might give up their newer pack and drive away on their road trip with an older (limited to 90kW) pack.....:scared:
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bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
So this is really embarrassing to admit, but ummm, I had to drive an ICE to Colorado over the holidays and the gas mileage was really bad.
Each time I stopped to fill the tank, it ran me around $50 for around 15-16 gallons. Paying $50 for a 265 mile battery swap would have been faster and cleaner and around the same cost overall.
In over 25 trips to superchargers while traveling and 15 different ones on the west coast; Hawthorne was the only issue as Gilroy is now 9 or soon 10. As owners we can do our best to relieve this as much as possible by sharing information. All the owners in the Hawthorne queue were very conscious and friendly about not jumping the queue but there were still some interesting tidbits
For instance,
There are several things we can do to relieve this peak pressure. A little pre-planning can go a long way as peaks can easily be cut down.
For instance,
- Hawthorne had a back up on Friday from 1pm to 4pm. And typically has back ups at that time as well as Sunday morning and evening
- A few cars were left unattended and has completed charging for up to 20 minutes as indicated by the paired chargers getting more Amps
- Unattended cars did not leave contact information like a Twitter handle
- A few owners lived very close to the supercharger and were "topping off" at the busiest time
- Understand how superchargers work and that the last few miles are really slow compared to starting from zero. One owner pulled in with 200 miles of rated range and needed to get to 260 and lived nearby
There are several things we can do to relieve this peak pressure. A little pre-planning can go a long way as peaks can easily be cut down.
- Communicate the peaks in person by talking to owners, online (wiki) or maybe post a note at the supercharger if you visit it often detailing the peak times so folks can avoid those times. A few owners I spoke to have never heard of TMC
- If you live close or use it often, try your best to not use it during peak times. Plan ahead so you don't need a charge at peak hours
- Don't leave your car as Hawthorne has a nice place to sit inside so you can be sure to be there if someone is in a real pickle for a trickle if you know what I mean
- During peak times, if you do leave then leave some information to get a hold of you like a Twitter handle or a hashtag you've followed
steve841
Active Member
LOL ... not in this narcissistic world.
It's free, people will use them. It's that simple. I can't hate for that.
WE must live with it. Good or bad.
I really love your ideas, but we don't live in the perfect world.
- Communicate the peaks in person by talking to owners, online (wiki) or maybe post a note at the supercharger if you visit it often detailing the peak times so folks can avoid those times. A few owners I spoke to have never heard of TMC
- If you live close or use it often, try your best to not use it during peak times. Plan ahead so you don't need a charge at peak hours
- Don't leave your car as Hawthorne has a nice place to sit inside so you can be sure to be there if someone is in a real pickle for a trickle if you know what I mean
- During peak times, if you do leave then leave some information to get a hold of you like a Twitter handle or a hashtag you've followed
Although I would honor those rules I know enough people who simply do not care. They think the earth rotates around them instead of the sun. Those people buy a Tesla as well and will use the SuperChargers as it suits them.
A Model S should simply self-destruct if connected to a SuperCharger and if charging finished over 30 minutes ago.
Over the holidays I was driving from Los Altos to Truckee - which I cannot do non-stop - and pulled into the Vacaville Supercharger. It was nearly packed (one bay open) with locals. I was only able to get 30kW until someone left.
I have trouble understanding why these people bother. With a PG&E E-9 rate they can charge at home off-peak for $0.04/kWh. A full 85kWh charge will cost them $3.40 and they can enjoy the comfort of their home while they charge. They really must value their time at a very low rate if they are willing to spend an hour or more to save $3.40.
I would be very happy to pay a nominal charge for using a supercharger if it would help discourage use by people who don't need them - so they will be available for people who do.
Perhaps Telsa should have you swipe a credit card and charge you $10 each time you use a supercharger. They then track your car and give you a refund if you were traveling far enough that you needed the charge (0.8*starting range - distance travelled < 30 + allowance for any hills). If you drive home less than 30 miles away after charging (and you had more than 60 miles left before starting) they keep the $10.
I have trouble understanding why these people bother. With a PG&E E-9 rate they can charge at home off-peak for $0.04/kWh. A full 85kWh charge will cost them $3.40 and they can enjoy the comfort of their home while they charge. They really must value their time at a very low rate if they are willing to spend an hour or more to save $3.40.
I would be very happy to pay a nominal charge for using a supercharger if it would help discourage use by people who don't need them - so they will be available for people who do.
Perhaps Telsa should have you swipe a credit card and charge you $10 each time you use a supercharger. They then track your car and give you a refund if you were traveling far enough that you needed the charge (0.8*starting range - distance travelled < 30 + allowance for any hills). If you drive home less than 30 miles away after charging (and you had more than 60 miles left before starting) they keep the $10.
This idea of folks who live locally deciding to use superchargers in order to avoid charging at home is something that a number of folks seem to think that, because it's not specifically prohibited, is OK to do.
There's some significant discussion about it in the Supercharge Every Day? thread.
While it doesn't seem to violate any terms of service, I don't believe it's what Tesla's intended usage for the superchargers is. What's more, these examples here demonstrate why the idea doesn't scale well if even a small percentage of owners decide to do this.
There's some significant discussion about it in the Supercharge Every Day? thread.
While it doesn't seem to violate any terms of service, I don't believe it's what Tesla's intended usage for the superchargers is. What's more, these examples here demonstrate why the idea doesn't scale well if even a small percentage of owners decide to do this.
How do you find out the folks who were charging at that time were all locals ?
Just curious...
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
Charging a $10 fine would still violate the "Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled." statement on the supercharger page. I'd propose something a bit more subtle. Right now if two cars share a supercharger stack, the first car to plug in gets full power while the second car gets the leftover power. If the first car is a local/frequent user and the second car is someone on a long road trip then simply give the road-tripper full power even though they plugged in second and give the local the leftover power until the road tripper is done. This way supercharging is still free, but the people who presumably need the supercharger more get priority. A threshold like spending at least 10 hours a month connected to one particular supercharger might be a good way to deprioritize a particular user at a particular supercharger.
The problem is what's the grace period. Is it like a parking metre where if time runs out and you're there you get a fine? Is it ten minutes? If so what happens at 11 minutes?
I think the real answer is to have a text message sent to the phone when the charging is done. I'm sure a lot of folks don't have a real good idea about how to estimate the amount of time it will take so they just leave for an hour. Then 15 minutes after the first message, someone (perhaps a robotic someone) calls to remind the person that the charging is done and others may be waiting.
Fedderman
Original: 2012 Model S (85); Current: 2024 Model S
I agree. In fact a first text should be sent when 200 mile rated range has been achieved - very few cases where one needs more than this at an SC, and charging rate really ramps down. A second could be sent when the charge is complete.
Great suggestions. Automated reminders would be a step in the right direction without being punitive.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
And I wonder if any customer MS's have been to Lusk, WY or Murdo, SD yet. Let's here from the first TMC member to get to these remote Superchargers!
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Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
The problem is that Tesla chose to put the SC's in nice places like outlet malls. Charge the car and go shopping! But you go try on some clothes and wait in a long checkout line and next thing you know the car has been done for 20 minutes. And you're on the other side of the mall and it takes a while to walk back.
Should they have put SC's in really desolate industrial zones with nothing but a porta potty and a vending machine so that people get out of there as soon as possible?
Actually Hawthorne is kind of like that, but it is still crowded!
Should they have put SC's in really desolate industrial zones with nothing but a porta potty and a vending machine so that people get out of there as soon as possible?
Actually Hawthorne is kind of like that, but it is still crowded!
Yes under e-9 you can charge for .04 per kWh as long as you stay within baseline. Most customers are unable to stay within 2-300% of baseline without an EV!
http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf
This problem will only get worse every year. One solution is to allow free supercharging 40 or so miles outside of your home address. If you charge close to home, you must pay. Of course this could only apply to new customers since the old customers were told supercharging would be free for life anywhere.
Owner
Active Member
I'm having a hard time thinking these folks were locals.
Vacaville is not a large town 93,000 right now and midway between the Bay Area and Sacramento. I just doubt that many folks in Vacaville own Model S's.
Vacaville though is a great central location for I-5 north and south and I-80 and I-50 into Tahoe. I would venture to guess these folks were traveling as the holiday travel period is still on us.
Maybe we just need more stations.
Vacaville is not a large town 93,000 right now and midway between the Bay Area and Sacramento. I just doubt that many folks in Vacaville own Model S's.
Vacaville though is a great central location for I-5 north and south and I-80 and I-50 into Tahoe. I would venture to guess these folks were traveling as the holiday travel period is still on us.
Maybe we just need more stations.
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