Supercharger Event 2012/9/24

[strider]

With net-metering from solar, why is battery storage necessary? During the day they're pushing power into the grid and then when people charge they pull power from the grid. Elon stated he expected that the chargers will provide more power then they use so on net there shouldn't be any cost for electricity save the taxes and metering costs. I don't understand what having on-site batteries would accomplish.

 

[TEG]

Learning a Lesson about Net Metering | Institute for Local Self-Reliance

...
It’s not that easy.

In this case, 12 percent of the bill is taxes and fees. And of the remaining 88 percent of the bill, 60 percent isn’t an energy charge for kWh, but a “demand charge,” which the solar PV array doesn’t affect. So the customer can “net meter” their power, but only affect 35 percent of their total bill...

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/b2b/newgenerator/understandingyourbill_commercial.pdf

...Understanding Demand Charges
In addition to energy charges, customers taking service on A-10, E-19 and E-20 are also billed for demand (kW) charges. Maximum demand is classified as the highest number of kW used during any recorded 15-minute interval during the billing period. Credit from kWh generation may not be used to offset credit for demand charges. To the extent that generation from your photovoltaic system continuously meets your load as described in #1 of ‘Understanding Generation Credits’, you may reduce your maximum demand charges. However, if there is a 15-minute interval during a billing period where the generation from the photovoltaic system does not meet customer load or if customer load is not coincident with generation from the photovoltaic system, demand charges will apply.
Customers taking service on E-19 and E-20 are also charged for max peak and max part-peak demand as well. Max peak and max part-peak demands are calculated using the highest number of kW used during any recorded 15-minute interval during the applicable TOU period...

 

[kendallpb]

But yeah, I bought a Model S because Tesla advertised Supercharging. It looks like it will be a couple of years (those are Tesla years, so probably 3 years of real time) before a Supercharger is anywhere near me; that is definitely not what I expected--had I known that, I would have kept my current EVs and ordered a Model S in a couple of years. As happy as I am about Tesla's overall strategy and what it means for the market long-term, as a current owner I am not happy about the revealed-too-late rollout plans. A reasonably priced (probably not cheap; it is a lot more complicated than a physical adapter) CHAdeMO adapter would do wonders to change my outlook; WA and OR are crawling with the stations.

I figured it was all theoretical till announced; I don't know what Tesla said previously, but with nothing announced by June, I figured roll-out would go something like this. I didn't expect so many dots on either map, actually.

But if dots useful to you are on the two-year map (it sounds like), then they'll be there within/by two years. They started with six, but they're not going to open a bunch in 1.9 years. ;-) Stations will open up during the next two years (and beyond). I don't have the map in front of me and am not sure where you were looking, of course....

I wonder if they'll show up quicker in coastal states.

 

[strider]

Thanks TEG.

 

[KenEE]

PlugShare.com shows 144 CHAdeMO stations in the US with 39 in Texas. I think it's crazy that the Model S can't use these.

If loving CHAdeMO is wrong, I don't wanna be right...

 

[vfx]

Today's expanded and sped up Supercharging announcement included images of the new obelisk.

I was a fan of the old one but I look forward to the onsite branding at Supercharging sites finally getting underway.


And it looks like they have a new watermelon interior the the units.

 

[swaltner]

Wanting to expand on the demand charges clarified by TEG. Generally residential service doesn't have this, so it's confusing at first.

TEG quoted something saying that demand charge wouldn't be impacted by a PV installation. *IF* the peak demand of the month happened in the middle of a bright sunny day, your demand charge would be reduced. Now, if your peak demand for the month happened on a cloudy day or at night, you would still owe the full demand charge (even if that peak usage only lasted for 15 minutes out of the entire month).

I was looking at suggesting a PV system at my church. Their peak summer bill last year (July 18 to Aug 16, 2012) was for 5,520 kWh with a 76 kW demand charge. As far as I can tell, the demand charge is $7/kW meaning over half the $1,001 bill was due to the electrical demand. If we put in a solar system, in addition to reducing the electrical usage (kWh), it would also help with reducing the demand charge if we had sunny days on EVERY Sunday morning and Wednesday evening when the full air-conditioning systems is active. If we also added in a 16.5 kW (80 Amps * 208 Volts) HPWC that was used in the same time frame, any demand charge reduction from the PV system would be killed off by the extra demand caused by a HPWC. These charges per kWh and per kW go down as the customer's total kWh used goes up.

Translating this to the Tesla Superchargers, on the picture at Supercharger | Tesla Motors I count roughly between 100 and 125 panels. At the high in, and assuming 240 Watts for each panel, that solar system would generate 30 kW of power at its peak, or 1/4 of the power demands of a single charging station. So, even though the energy usage (kWh) may be totally negated by the solar panels, they are still going to have demand charges at these sites. As you can see be the back of the napkin calculations, that even if solar panels were installed at every SuperCharger site, Tesla would need to install panels elsewhere (on the factory roof for example) to make the net usage of the network break even. The demand charge should be fairly consistent across the year since one would assume that at some point over the course of the month, enough cars would be plugged in simultaneously to cause the same peak power demands.

 

[mhpr262]

Today's expanded and sped up Supercharging announcement included images of the new obelisk.

Good, the old one always reminded me of one of those modern design style dildos, to be honest ...

 

[CantaMia Ron]

When will they have Super chargers in Lake Havasu City AZ?