Supercharger - Firebaugh, CA (I-5 / West Panoche Rd, LIVE 13 Nov 2020, 56 V3 stalls)

[MorrisonHiker]

That Google Maps visualization is misleading because Google Maps is simply offering you directions to a single/random location within Firebaugh. 93622 zip code belongs to Firebaugh. The location of the supercharger is in Firebaugh.

46272 West Panoche Road, Firebaugh, CA 93622

Google Maps

Yes, I know it has a Firebaugh address. I was pointing out that it isn't actually in the town of Firebaugh which would take a drive of nearly 30 minutes to get to. The ZIP code I live in covers over 100 square miles. While houses at addresses in my ZIP code have a Morrison postal address, 99% of them are not in the actual town of Morrison and could easily take 30 minutes to drive to the actual town of Morrison. The same applies for the Firebaugh Supercharger location. It has a Firebaugh ZIP code but is not in the town limits (as outlined in red below).

 

[AMPd]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this item but, the planned RV/Bus parking I believe is for future Tesla SEMI charging.

It’s not

 

[Dave EV]

Additionally, the new Superchargers are v3, which allows for faster charging than v2 for the large majority of new Teslas sold. Faster charging increases capacity.

Expansions, either at the same location, or very close by add capacity, but others, even if only 10 miles away add _density_ as well as capacity.

Density increases capacity by optimizing charging in two ways. First, it means that cars are more likely to be able to stop at an optimally low state of charge, instead of having to stop early to top off and reach the next Supercharger. Second, it allows cars to stop charging before there's excessive taper.

V3 Superchargers have another benefit - they are not affected by pairing of stalls (instead of 150 kW max per pair of stalls, you get 1 MW per 4 stalls). In addition, the liquid cooled cables appear to be more durable and support higher charging speeds where the V2 cables easily overheat in hot weather, reducing Supercharging speed significantly.

Comparing a V2 to V3 Supercharger location, the V3 will be able to support up to 4x faster charging. In real life it's probably not quite that good since the cars can't support 250 kW for extended periods of time, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a V3 station supporting 2x more energy delivered per stall compared to a V2 station.

Firebaugh is really going to improve capacity along I5 for those busy driving days.

 

[miimura]

V3 Superchargers have another benefit - they are not affected by pairing of stalls (instead of 150 kW max per pair of stalls, you get 1 MW per 4 stalls). In addition, the liquid cooled cables appear to be more durable and support higher charging speeds where the V2 cables easily overheat in hot weather, reducing Supercharging speed significantly.

Comparing a V2 to V3 Supercharger location, the V3 will be able to support up to 4x faster charging. In real life it's probably not quite that good since the cars can't support 250 kW for extended periods of time, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a V3 station supporting 2x more energy delivered per stall compared to a V2 station.

Firebaugh is really going to improve capacity along I5 for those busy driving days.

This is not completely correct (1 MW per 4 stalls). While each vehicle can take a maximum of 250kW, in aggregate, a V3 site without batteries can only draw an average of about 79kW per stall. Each V3 cabinet that serves 4 stalls can only draw 350kVA from the grid. The cabinets can be interconnected to share power on a DC bus with a maximum of 575kW into a cabinet. At best, a 12 stall site with 4 empty cars all connected to the same cabinet with the rest of the stalls empty would be limited to about 890kW = 222.5kW per car. If 12 empty cars all showed up at the same time to the 12 stall site, they would be limited to about 79kW. In reality, the charge taper of vehicles randomly arriving and departing will make this pretty much a non-issue. While batteries on the DC bus could theoretically increase the burst speed of the SC V3 system, I've not seen evidence that any public site is installed to do this. For example, the Santa Rosa V3 site uses normal Powerpacks and Tesla inverter. So, it probably only interconnects at the AC distribution level and it probably won't increase the burst charging speed. It probably only reduces the utility demand charges and smooths out the grid draw of the site.

Firebaugh will definitely increase the travel capacity of the I-5 corridor and it nicely fills a gap between Gustine and Harris Ranch. However, it will also likely move the corridor choke point further south to the Stockdale Hwy / Buttonwillow / Tejon Ranch area. That cluster has a combined 44 stalls.

 

[Pluto]

That Google Maps visualization is misleading because Google Maps is simply offering you directions to a single/random location within Firebaugh. 93622 zip code belongs to Firebaugh. The location of the supercharger is in Firebaugh.

46272 West Panoche Road, Firebaugh, CA 93622

Google Maps

Addressing isn't just based off the zip code if a location doesn't exist though. It's also based on the street number and street. For instance, Best Western Apricot Inn's address is 46290 W Panoche Rd, Firebaugh, CA 93622 (very close to 46272) which is right next to that pin. And on the opposite side of the street, the numbers are all odd. So it's 100% guaranteed that the location of this supercharger is either going to be very close to where the pin is, or barely on the other side of the freeway on the north side of Panoche Rd.

 

[miimura]

Addressing isn't just based off the zip code if a location doesn't exist though. It's also based on the street number and street. For instance, Best Western Apricot Inn's address is 46290 W Panoche Rd, Firebaugh, CA 93622 (very close to 46272) which is right next to that pin. And on the opposite side of the street, the numbers are all odd. So it's 100% guaranteed that the location of this supercharger is either going to be very close to where the pin is, or barely on the other side of the freeway on the north side of Panoche Rd.

There is no doubt about where the site is. The site plan from the permits is already posted in the first page of this thread.

 

[israndy]

That Google Maps visualization is misleading because Google Maps is simply offering you directions to a single/random location

Google doesn't give you random directions (as much as I hate Google for tracking people) if you ask for directions to a town you will get directions to city hall.

 

[smartypnz]

This area is known for mis-located names of SpC locations... see Holister and even nearby Gustine. Try going to those two towns and asking for walking directions to the Tesla Supercharger. Firebaugh wins the 'longest distance from town' award. But not by much.

 

[P85_DA]

Firebaugh wins the 'longest distance from town' award. B

Agreed that’s why the title should be changed to “Supercharger — Panoche” @bmah

 

[MarcoRP]

This area is known for mis-located names of SpC locations... see Holister and even nearby Gustine. Try going to those two towns and asking for walking directions to the Tesla Supercharger. Firebaugh wins the 'longest distance from town' award. But not by much.

I think Gardnerville, NV has the win for the US.

 

[corywright]

Agreed that’s why the title should be changed to “Supercharger — Panoche” @bmah

Tesla's Find Us page has a "Coming Soon" entry for Firebaugh, CA:

 

[Bill25cycle]

This site will have a bit of an electric bill. - I'm estimating 5000 kw on a day like Labor Day. Possibly 2 separate electrical services on the low voltage side. Very interesting!

 

[ucmndd]

How about the 99 corridor?

Modesto, Manteca #2 and Elk Grove all new and online in the last few months.

Traver (Bravo Farms) under construction and almost complete.

Visalia, Turlock, and expansion of Fresno all in permitting.

It’s happening...

 

[Dave EV]

This is not completely correct (1 MW per 4 stalls). While each vehicle can take a maximum of 250kW, in aggregate, a V3 site without batteries can only draw an average of about 79kW per stall. Each V3 cabinet that serves 4 stalls can only draw 350kVA from the grid. The cabinets can be interconnected to share power on a DC bus with a maximum of 575kW into a cabinet. At best, a 12 stall site with 4 empty cars all connected to the same cabinet with the rest of the stalls empty would be limited to about 890kW = 222.5kW per car. If 12 empty cars all showed up at the same time to the 12 stall site, they would be limited to about 79kW. In reality, the charge taper of vehicles randomly arriving and departing will make this pretty much a non-issue. While batteries on the DC bus could theoretically increase the burst speed of the SC V3 system, I've not seen evidence that any public site is installed to do this. For example, the Santa Rosa V3 site uses normal Powerpacks and Tesla inverter. So, it probably only interconnects at the AC distribution level and it probably won't increase the burst charging speed. It probably only reduces the utility demand charges and smooths out the grid draw of the site.

Thanks for setting me straight! Though I think your 79 kW/stall is a bit pessimistic - power factor is almost certainly very close to 100% (>99%), 87 kW / stall without batteries or power sharing I guess the question is how many PowerPacks are they also installing to help support the install here for peak loads and peak shaving. ~5 MW continuous for Firebaugh as a site with 56 stalls / 14 SCv3 cabinets. Are 5000 kVA transformers a "common" size?

 

[1100MCM]

Thanks for setting me straight! Though I think your 79 kW/stall is a bit pessimistic - power factor is almost certainly very close to 100% (>99%), 87 kW / stall without batteries or power sharing I guess the question is how many PowerPacks are they also installing to help support the install here for peak loads and peak shaving. ~5 MW continuous for Firebaugh as a site with 56 stalls / 14 SCv3 cabinets. Are 5000 kVA transformers a "common" size?

For a 12 kV distribution feeder (which is what will feed this) it’s not common to size a single 5000 kVA transformer. It will likely be two 1500 to 2500 kVA transformers at most.

 

[miimura]

For a 12 kV distribution feeder (which is what will feed this) it’s not common to size a single 5000 kVA transformer. It will likely be two 1500 to 2500 kVA transformers at most.

The site will likely be divided into two sets of 7 V3 cabinets. Each set can be fed by a 2500kVA transformer. I may have missed it. Was there any mention in the permit docs about a battery system?

 

[miimura]

Thanks for setting me straight! Though I think your 79 kW/stall is a bit pessimistic - power factor is almost certainly very close to 100% (>99%), 87 kW / stall without batteries or power sharing I guess the question is how many PowerPacks are they also installing to help support the install here for peak loads and peak shaving. ~5 MW continuous for Firebaugh as a site with 56 stalls / 14 SCv3 cabinets. Are 5000 kVA transformers a "common" size?

Power factor is not really a big issue. I assumed a 90% AC to DC conversion efficiency and resistive losses in my kVA to kW figures.

 

[Speight]

Tesla's Find Us page has a "Coming Soon" entry for Firebaugh, CA:

View attachment 588922

Interestingly, this pin appears to have been manually placed along I-5 rather than at the Google Maps center of town as most pins are, but still over 15 miles from the actual location. I guess even Tesla recognized that putting the pin in Firebaugh proper would be misleading, but they didn't want to make it too easy to find the actual location.

 

[glewis83186]

This picture was taken last week on Labor Day (via @TeslaOwnersNBay):
View attachment 588476

Glad you posted this cause I was like WDF is that person saying when they wrote they never saw Kettleman City full, news flash it was also like this in the winter holiday season! I think there needs to be more urban Superchargers in the Central Valley. Put one in Visalia/Tulare area!!!! Just my two cents!!!

 

[MarcoRP]

Not really an update, but more some daytime photos of the site from some guy I follow on Twitter. Definitely a solar canopy going in

Mark on Twitter