Supercharger for the Roadster (Elon said "No")

[PokerBroker]

PokerBroker - a bit harsh, considering you either don't know the history or don't acknowledge the history. We don't need a lecture on what it means to be an early adopter. Roadster owners built the Tesla Highway along the West coast, used and enjoyed by owners and Tesla employees alike. People haven't been whining or bitching or bellyaching. We've asked for a 70amp charger to be installed at the Supercharger installations (hardly a big ask, considering that Tesla employees have used our installations for the past several years). We have all been active in the community, showing our Roadsters, promoting Tesla, showing up for events, and doing everything we can to support the company.

Original Roadster owners have been, by far, the most understanding owners Tesla could have hoped to have on their team. I'm glad to say it has been my personal experience that Tesla continues to treat us as 'one of the family' and acknowledges our role in helping bring them from garage shop to factory. Most of us are investors in Tesla and want to see the company succeed. I don't think there is a single one of us that would ask for anything to prevent that from happening.

I'm glad you're enjoying your car. Welcome to the community.

Thanks for the response, one of the few that actually addressed my comment rather than diving back into the supercharger debate for which there are plenty of threads already. I am well aware of the history and have been following Tesla since start-up like many others. That contributes a bit to why I am so surprised to see so many negative comments from Roadster owners. This post was more directed at the owners who seem to feel entitled to more than they bought and contribute to bad Tesla press on Facebook, Twitter, and other media outlets... and I've been seeing it pretty darn regularly since the initial rollout of the supercharger network for the Model S. I realize that this doesn't apply to ALL Roadster owners and I most definitely recognize the critical role early Roadster owners played in Tesla's success. My Roadster is already being used to promote Tesla to the uninitiated (many in Ohio) and I'm happy to join THAT group of Roadster owners.

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We've asked for a 70amp charger to be installed at the Supercharger installations

I could get on board with this but Ohio isn't expected to see any superchargers for another two years anyways

 

[Jackyche]

Instead of getting on board, why not install some 70amp chargers in Ohio? Here in Washington, we're trying to make 90% of highways EV friendly in 90 days. All it takes is the tremendous man power of a few very active individuals and a lot of money. And those individuals are active forum members here as well as Roadster owners.

So before you start accusing people of being the entitlement bunch, make sure you know the people first. As example, forum member BuzzBuzz started the effort to put a 70amp charger @ Port Angeles (see Northwest forum). See how many visits and phone calls he had to make for a simple $2000 charger. No help from Tesla. Who will be benefiting from the 70amp the most? Model S and Roadster owners. Some people are just asking Tesla to throw a bone their way. That's it.

I could get on board with this but Ohio isn't expected to see any superchargers for another two years anyways

 

[PokerBroker]

I suppose that is more realistic on the coasts where most Roadster owners are concentrated. Ohio is pretty well covered with HPWC in Columbus, Dayton, Akron/Cleveland... Cincinnati is about all that's lacking, and all of these cities are separated by no more than 120 miles without access. An additional boost would be necessary to make it to Detroit, Indy, or Pittsburgh... That's about it.

 

[dsm363]

I suppose that is more realistic on the coasts where most Roadster owners are concentrated. Ohio is pretty well covered with HPWC in Columbus, Dayton, Akron/Cleveland... Cincinnati is about all that's lacking, and all of these cities are separated by no more than 120 miles without access. An additional boost would be necessary to make it to Detroit, Indy, or Pittsburgh... That's about it.

The EVSEs being installed in Washington are actually J1772 stations at (70A I believe) so even the Leaf or Volt can use them.

 

[Gwenn]

i'm just hoping for 2 things, a new and better battery pack with the new cell because other ways the will run out of batterypacks because they don't produce them anymore so i heard can any justify this?
So they need to develop a battery pack with the model s or model x cells with the same volume and weight to not change te roadster too much.

In europe i would be nice too have 3 fase charging then i could charge 3Fx16A from a charging station and not 1F x 16A that's just too slow and same mennekes connector like in the model S don't now of all these things are possible but would be nice.

Suppercharging is not really a must for the roadster, if you drive the roadster for alot of highway it's not the most comfortable car and not alot of space in the trunk so i would prefer to take the airplane to go on holiday.

 

[hcsharp]

Gwenn, you will probably get your wish on a new and better battery pack because the cells used in the Model S are currently cheaper than the cells used in the Roadster. As for 3 phase charging, don't hold your breath. (That's an American expression that means it probably won't happen any time soon, if ever.) Many Europeans have asked for 3 phase for the Roadster, but sadly Tesla has always said No and no intention of ever doing it.

I seriously explored making a 3 phase charging adapter for the Roadster that I could sell in Europe, but I didn't think the market would support a $3,000 to $4,000 adapter. I might sell 15 or 20 but that wouldn't pay for the development.

i'm just hoping for 2 things, a new and better battery pack with the new cell because other ways the will run out of batterypacks because they don't produce them anymore so i heard can any justify this?
So they need to develop a battery pack with the model s or model x cells with the same volume and weight to not change te roadster too much.

In europe i would be nice too have 3 fase charging then i could charge 3Fx16A from a charging station and not 1F x 16A that's just too slow and same mennekes connector like in the model S don't now of all these things are possible but would be nice.

Suppercharging is not really a must for the roadster, if you drive the roadster for alot of highway it's not the most comfortable car and not alot of space in the trunk so i would prefer to take the airplane to go on holiday.

 

[dhrivnak]

Any chance of making a CHAdeMO or super charger adapter? I assume not as the conversion from DC to AC is not likely trivial but thought I would as as Tesla seems to be going nowhere fast in this area and I believe there is a large need.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@David

IMO super charger adapter would be almost the same as super charger integration for Roadster. Main thing is that Roadster be allowed in some way to charge at SuperChargers.

 

[qwk]

Any chance of making a CHAdeMO or super charger adapter? I assume not as the conversion from DC to AC is not likely trivial but thought I would as as Tesla seems to be going nowhere fast in this area and I believe there is a large need.

This is not going to happen. An adapter will do nothing. The roadster lacks both the hardware and software to DC charge. A newly designed PEM/HV box, charge port and a few other small items, along with the software to run it all would be needed(1.5 roadsters would also need the hardware upgraded to be on the Tesla connectivity plan). The roadster battery also uses different cells that most likely haven't been tested for quick charging. The R&D costs would be too much considering the very limited roadster numbers.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@qwk

But Elon said "cool things for Roadster in 2014". So what do you think is going to happen?

 

[qwk]

@qwk

But Elon said "cool things for Roadster in 2014". So what do you think is going to happen?

Cool things doesn't mean level 3 charging.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Cool things doesn't mean level 3 charging.

Forgive me but I don't know about levels of charging. Do you think that the Roadster will get some kind of upgrades concerning charging anyway?

 

[qwk]

Forgive me but I don't know about levels of charging. Do you think that the Roadster will get some kind of upgrades concerning charging anyway?

Doubtful. Probably a pack with Model S cells for $$$$$.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Doubtful. Probably a pack with Model S cells for $$$$$.

I am not an expert of batteries but IMHO I think that if the Roadster will get Model S cells (and I also think that this is going to happen) it will get also SuperCharger integration.

 

[Doug_G]

Elon has already stated categorically (at TESLIVE) that supercharging was not possible for the Roadster.

Most likely they're bringing out a battery pack with Model S cells. They actually have to do this at some point, because the original cells are obsolete, and they've promised replacement packs. Given that they must do this anyway, it's far more likely than anything else.

 

[Smop]

The cooling system on the Roadster would have to be improved significantly to allow for supercharging unless they go to something like dry ice cooling. Smaller more cost effective packs for those people who did not purchase the battery replacement is probably what he was eluding to.

 

[Jackyche]

I would like to revive this thread now that quite a bit of speculations regarding "something really cool" for 2014 is centered around SuperCharging.

Lets just assume Tesla wants to retrofit Roadster for SuperCharging capabilities (lets just ignore current maximum Kw). What is involved?

Battery - assume new batter cells and layout design. Now its gotta accept DC current. If it bypasses PEM, do we need significant PEM modification? Is the current cooling method sufficient?

PEM - how much design change is needed if a new battery is used?

Wiring - a big fat pipe is of course warranted ....

Any thoughts?

 

[Doug_G]

I would like to revive this thread now that quite a bit of speculations regarding "something really cool" for 2014 is centered around SuperCharging.

...except that, again, Elon stated emphatically at Teslive last year that Roadster is not and will not be compatible with Supercharging. Coming to any kind of "conclusion" about this is very likely going to result in disappointment.

 

[ChadS]

My first thought, as a Roadster owner, is that this would be AWESOME.

But I really, really, really doubt it will happen. Changing the battery, PEM and wiring may cost almost as much in parts and labor as some old Roadsters are worth. Plus Tesla would have a lot of engineering expenses (including opportunity cost of having precious engineers work on an old product!) and they can't possibly recoup those expenses given how few Roadsters there are, and how few owners would buy such an expensive upgrade especially given that the Roadster is not a particularly good car for road trips (and there is an alternative now). And they are battery constrained so I doubt they want to put new batteries into existing cars (though somebody did mention the possibility of frankenbatteries for the Roadster built from underperforming Model S cells).

Not to mention that Tesla has been consistently dismissive of the possibility. If they want to offer something expensive, a 3.0-second performance package (inverter, tires, gearing, suspension changes...?) might make more people notice how cool EVs are. If they want to offer something free to owners, putting 80A HPCs at Superchargers could do.

I still like the idea of offering a FUTURE battery upgrade at a low cost - pay $X now, get a Y lb Z kWh battery in 5 years. They don't actually have to build anything until they have extra battery capacity and prices come down, but Roadster owners can breathe easier about the future of their cars and prospective Model S buyers would feel more comfortable "taking a gamble" on batteries. But from Elon's recent remarks, it doesn't seem they are going this route - it sounded like they would offer something this year, not just a promise of a future upgrade.

 

[Jackyche]

Certainly all very valid points Chad. Here's why, IMHO, it makes sense for the SuperCharger to be retrofitted to Roadster:

1. Battery - this issue has to be addressed regardless. The existing cells are discontinued. Some people pre-paid for new packs. If you're going to redesign a battery pack, might as well bring it up to standard.

2. Timing - any "financial/future incentive" type of announcement doesn't need to wait till 2014/2015. You can just announce.

3. SuperCharger itself - Elon's absolute refusal to install HPC's in SC stations points to a)they plan on retrofitting to Roadster or b)completely erase Roadster off the history books.

4. R&D - Tesla actually had lots of time to develop this already. Its not like SC's were announced last month. Tesla's been working on SC's since the beginning of Model S development. The other side to this is, Tesla has been and continue to be resource constrained. Its not like they had a bunch of free engineers available all this time.

Not really betting on Tesla offering SC's. But more of what you technically brilliant engineering guys impressions/opinions of what challenges presents itself for a SC retrofit.