Supercharger for the Roadster (Elon said "No")

[Doug_G]

@Jackyche,

1. Yes, they will eventually design a new Roadster pack. They kinda have to, even though they'll probably lose money on it (small volume).

3. When did Elon absolutely refuse to put HPCs at the Supercharger sites? Citation needed.

Personally, I think a 3 second Roadster would be really cool. But I would prefer better cooling so it would have some endurance on the track.

 

[Vger]

Nat at all to stir the optimism, but just as a historical note...

Tesla was at least THINKING about fast DC charging well before the Roadster was even finished and shipped. When my wife and I went for our first look at and ride in the engineering prototypes, in the old "garage" shop in San Carlos, I remember it was plainly discussed. I suspect that it was deferred, then dropped for the Roadster, when the cost overruns and fading cash put the whole company on life support.

 

[miimura]

Why would supercharging a Roadster have to involve the PEM or a new battery at all? The cabling topology could be the same as the MS. It just takes a few contactors to re-route the inlet from the chargers (PEM in the Roadster) straight to the battery. The main thing is how much cooling capacity does the Roadster have for battery cooling. Model S "A packs" require a lot of cooling, so I would imagine the Roadster is the same.

Speaking of the inlet, would anybody pay for a retrofit to a Model S inlet, even if it was still limited to AC charging only? What about a J1772 inlet?

 

[djp]

Supercharger for the Roadster

I think the upgrade is more likely to be a swap of the Roadster port for a Model S port to let Roadsters use the new Model S UMC and HPWC - without SuperCharging.

This would simplify support for Tesla and guarantee the long term availability of charging hardware. It's a straight-forward wiring exercise and we've already seen one in the wild belonging to a Tesla engineer.

I agree SuperCharging for the Roadster isn't going to happen. It's too major a change and too expensive to test and implement. Elon was very clear this isn't on the roadmap (and this was after he said something cool was coming for the Roadster).

I'll need to go back to the transcript, but if I recall correctly it's more than just contactors that would need to be added. The fundamental architecture of the battery doesn't support Supercharging. There's something about the design in the way that two parts are bridged that prevents an easy implementation. I'll try to find the quote.

 

[WarpedOne]

Agreed, charging port replacment is lowest hanging fruit.

 

[Cottonwood]

Agreed, charging port replacment is lowest hanging fruit.

I agree. An updated port and an updated battery pack with current production cells are the most likely changes that we might see in the near future.

Here is what I posted at Time to revive WHAT IS THE BIG 2014 SURPRISE FOR THE ROADSTER????:

The economics are just not there for Tesla to dedicate any significant resources to Roadster upgrades. There were approximately 2,450 Roadsters delivered, see Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia. As we know there has been some attrition to that number so the actual number of Roadsters on the road today is probably less than 2,400. The weekly production rate of Model S's in Fremont is currently about 600. That means that Tesla is now making more Model S's in a month than it made Roadsters in four years.

For Tesla to take resources away from correcting problems in and improving the current Model S, and getting the Model X ready for production would be very difficult to justify. My guess is that while there may be a lot of emotion and good will at Tesla to maintain support of the Roadster, any major upgrade or feature design (like Supercharger support) is very, very unlikely to happen.

 

[ecarfan]

Supercharger for the Roadster

I think the upgrade is more likely to be a swap of the Roadster port for a Model S port to let Roadsters use the new Model S UMC and HPWC - without SuperCharging.
This would simplify support for Tesla and guarantee the long term availability of charging hardware. It's a straight-forward wiring exercise and we've already seen one in the wild belonging to a Tesla engineer.

As a current Model S owner with an HPWC and a new NEMA 14-50 plug next to it who also wants to be a Roadster owner someday, that would be AWESOME.

 

[smorgasbord]

Video from the way-back machine:
[video=vimeo;36221090]https://vimeo.com/36221090[/video]

 

[markwj]

I think the upgrade is more likely to be a swap of the Roadster port for a Model S port to let Roadsters use the new Model S UMC and HPWC - without SuperCharging.

One small issue with that idea - there are two Model S charge ports. North American style and European style (type 2).

Not sure what the ratio of roadsters in North America vs out, but there are a significant number of roadsters in countries with type 2 style connectors.

 

[miimura]

One small issue with that idea - there are two Model S charge ports. North American style and European style (type 2).

Not sure what the ratio of roadsters in North America vs out, but there are a significant number of roadsters in countries with type 2 style connectors.

Since Roadster is single phase in all markets, it doesn't make much difference. Just install a different molded part - the wiring behind the inlet is the same. The video above also brings up a good point - Roadster has no solenoid lock on the charge port, so that would have to be incorporated into the firmware and electronics somehow in order to use the Model S port. This seems to me to make a high power Type 1 (J1772) inlet easier and more natural.

 

[PV1]

But Elon said "cool things for Roadster in 2014". So what do you think is going to happen?

Musk announces his update for the Roadster while talking about the Model 3.

Tesla's $35,000 car will be called the Model 3

 

[TEG]

The cooling system on the Roadster would have to be improved significantly to allow for supercharging unless they go to something like dry ice cooling. Smaller more cost effective packs for those people who did not purchase the battery replacement is probably what he was eluding to.

^^^ this...

Even if they put Model S cells into a Roadster pack, the cooling system would have to be up to Model S standards for the pack to handle Supercharging...

 

[spaceballs]

^^^ this...

Even if they put Model S cells into a Roadster pack, the cooling system would have to be up to Model S standards for the pack to handle Supercharging...

Is Supercharging stated for x KW? How about just just having the ESS limit back of C rate as it's Supercharging. Doing so should charge well above 70 amps.

 

[TEG]

Is Supercharging stated for x KW? How about just just having the ESS limit back of C rate as it's Supercharging. Doing so should charge well above 70 amps.

Problem there is Tesla doesn't want anything hogging a Supercharging station (Roadster or otherwise) as Model S & X customers would be annoyed to have to wait in line for something slower.

Yes, I think anything from now on planning to use supercharger would be expected to do 135kW+ charging.

 

[mitch672]

Of course the other issue with putting HPCs for Roadsters at Supercharger sites is, most of them are running at 277V now (480V 3 phase), as the Model S charger can be run at 277 (L to N). Putting in 240V HPCs would mean dedicating an additional parking space and a buck-boost transformer to get the AC voltage in range. Same issue with installing generic 70A J-1772 EVSEs, they'd have to be in voltage spec, and would take a dedicated parking space up.. Even worse any EV could use it (meaning Leafs and Volts i3's etc) could be using the space. I think it's more likely for tesla to modify (replace existing/rebuild old one removed) the PEM to allow SuperCharging with a replacement Roadster pack. Of course Model S uses a liquid cooled system, Roadster doesn't... I can't see either option happening...

 

[spaceballs]

... Of course Model S uses a liquid cooled system, Roadster doesn't... I can't see either option happening...

Roadster does use liquid cooling for the battery pack.

 

[mitch672]

Roadster does use liquid cooling for the battery pack.

ok.. i thought i saw large fans on it.
i guess if its liquid cooled, maybe they can upgrade the PEM for SuperCharging by adding a set of relays/logic and changing out the charging connector. i'm betting it would be a substantial rebuild, where they would swapout the existing PEM/battery for a rebuilt /modified unit that would be SC compatible. still, its expecting a lot... who knows, time will tell.

 

[roblab]

Problem there is Tesla doesn't want anything hogging a Supercharging station (Roadster or otherwise) as Model S & X customers would be annoyed to have to wait in line for something slower.

Yes, I think anything from now on planning to use supercharger would be expected to do 135kW+ charging.

This is why, with my lowly A pack, I sneak into Supercharger sites after 1AM, circle the lot twice to make sure there are no waiting Teslas of any kind, check all Supercharger pedestals for recent activity, and if there is absolutely no one around, with lights off, I plug in.

No one knows I only charge at 90 kW.

 

[bonnie]

This is why, with my lowly A pack, I sneak into Supercharger sites after 1AM, circle the lot twice to make sure there are no waiting Teslas of any kind, check all Supercharger pedestals for recent activity, and if there is absolutely no one around, with lights off, I plug in.

No one knows I only charge at 90 kW.

-snicker-

 

[Clprenz]

This is why, with my lowly A pack, I sneak into Supercharger sites after 1AM, circle the lot twice to make sure there are no waiting Teslas of any kind, check all Supercharger pedestals for recent activity, and if there is absolutely no one around, with lights off, I plug in.

No one knows I only charge at 90 kW.

LOL I agree, Tesla isn't concerned about that. Tesla wants the length of the time of charging to drop, if the difference between 90kw and 135kw is about 5-10 minutes- not really a big deal. ALSO, the amount of Model S's that are limited is about 3,000-4,000.