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Supercharger getting mostly Chademo speeds

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Mattzilla, Jun 21, 2017.

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  1. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    Tesla has escalated my case to engineering after the service center was unable to account for my drastically reduced supercharging speeds. Below is the e-mail I sent to them and asked them to share with engineering. I also included pictures to prove the data I provided and for reference. Figured I would post this here in case anyone else can relate or has had similar issues. And please, spare me the basic braindead troubleshooting steps for supercharging. I've tried them all and it's insulting at this point. And obviously Tesla is finally taking this seriously as it has been escalated to engineering.


    "I am currently charging at the Centralia supercharger. I arrived at 2:34pm with 10% SoC, outside temperatures in the mid 80s, driving a car that was well warmed up (3.5 hour drive to the service center this morning, several short charging spurts at the service center, then 2.5 hour drive [heavy traffic on I-5] to the supercharger here in Centralia), and I picked a stall that wasn’t being shared with another Tesla (I plugged in at 1A – no Tesla on 1B).

    After allowing a few minutes for the charge to ramp up, my charge rate was only 50 kW at 13% SoC. At 20% SoC, I was charging at 52 kW. At 31% SoC, I was charging at 52 kW.

    These slow charge rates prompted me to move to stall 3A. There was no Tesla at 3B. My car suddenly jumped up to 84 kW at 33% SoC. At 41% SoC, I was charging at 86 kW. For reference, 87 kW is the fastest I have been able to supercharge since last summer. Last summer, shortly after taking delivery of the car, I was able to supercharge much faster than that.

    At 42% SoC, A model X entered and hooked up to stall 3B. From what I have read, the newly arriving Tesla’s charge rate should be throttled since I was here first. However, after the X hooked up, my charge rate plummeted to the 40 kW range. By 49% SoC, I was maxing out at 56 kW. By 59% SoC, My max rate was 49 kW.

    At 60% SoC, it was now 3:14pm. I started charging at 2:34pm. That means it took 40 minutes to get a 50% charge.

    Regardless of the throttling, I know that these speeds, even my max speed, is not normal. There must be some explanation as to why my charge speeds are so slow now. I have used many superchargers in 3 different states since last fall and, no matter the conditions, I cannot charge faster than 87 kW. Most of the time I am charging MUCH slower than that (as demonstrated by the case above).

    Here are the pictures for reference to corroborate the above:"
     
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  2. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    That's helpful, proactively yell at anyone who might help you.

    what pictures?
     
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  3. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    Yes, bolding the originally plain text for me to make it appear to be "yelling." Clever little trick there. The reason I included that line is because I have posted about this issue numerous times and numerous times other Tesla owners tried to place the blame on me or have accused me of not doing basic troubleshooting. Wanted to save some of those pointless responses. Looks like it didn't work.

    The pictures, as I explained, were sent to Tesla service and subsequently engineering. Is this your way of saying you'd like to see them posted here? If so, I'd be happy to do that when I return home in a few hours and can use my PC.
     
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  4. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    Here is my e-mail with the pictures included (I added each picture to the corresponding statement to make it more readable). I tried to edit the original post to add these rather than create another post but apparently that isn't an option on this forum.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    "I am currently charging at the Centralia supercharger. I arrived at 2:34pm with 10% SoC, outside temperatures in the mid 80s, driving a car that was well warmed up (3.5 hour drive to the service center this morning, several short charging spurts at the service center, then 2.5 hour drive [heavy traffic on I-5] to the supercharger here in Centralia), and I picked a stall that wasn’t being shared with another Tesla (I plugged in at 1A – no Tesla on 1B).
    1.jpg

    After allowing a few minutes for the charge to ramp up, my charge rate was only 50 kW at 13% SoC.
    2.jpg

    At 20% SoC, I was charging at 52 kW.
    3.jpg

    At 31% SoC, I was charging at 52 kW.
    4.jpg

    These slow charge rates prompted me to move to stall 3A. There was no Tesla at 3B. My car suddenly jumped up to 84 kW at 33% SoC.
    5.jpg

    At 41% SoC, I was charging at 86 kW.
    6.jpg

    For reference, 87 kW is the fastest I have been able to supercharge since last summer. Last summer, shortly after taking delivery of the car, I was able to supercharge much faster than that.

    At 42% SoC, A model X entered and hooked up to stall 3B. From what I have read, the newly arriving Tesla’s charge rate should be throttled since I was here first. However, after the X hooked up, my charge rate plummeted to the 40 kW range. By 49% SoC, I was maxing out at 56 kW.
    7.jpg

    By 59% SoC, My max rate was 49 kW.
    8.jpg

    At 60% SoC, it was now 3:14pm. I started charging at 2:34pm. That means it took 40 minutes to get a 50% charge.

    Regardless of the throttling, I know that these speeds, even my max speed, is not normal. There must be some explanation as to why my charge speeds are so slow now. I have used many superchargers in 3 different states since last fall and, no matter the conditions, I cannot charge faster than 87 kW. Most of the time I am charging MUCH slower than that (as demonstrated by the case above).

    Here are the pictures for reference to corroborate the above:"
     
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  5. andrewket

    andrewket Well-Known Member

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    How many times have you used DC charging over the life of your car?
     
  6. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    40-50 times max. Normally only on long road trips, and I've only take 2 of them so far.

    I know, I was half expecting to receive the message about my charge rate being throttled for using DC fast charging too often (like that one poor guy), but so far they are entertaining the possibility that this could be something else *fingers crossed*
     
  7. ucmndd

    ucmndd Member

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    How much faster is "much faster"? The theoretical limit of a 75kwh pack is ~100kw. 87 seems reasonable. 50 is clearly not.
     
  8. Alex D

    Alex D Member

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    I just did a 2500 miles road trip and experienced the exact same thing. Given, I only drive a 75D but I usually still get over 90 kw when charging with a low SOC. I did the same thing and changed stalls. Then it would (just as in your example) jump up to 80-90 kw, just to go down again after a few minutes. This happened at every single Supercharger I stopped between Florida and North Carolina. Very annoying...

    At every Supercharger I was pretty much alone. But in any case, I was not using a stall that was already taking by someone else in the pair. Meaning I used for example 1A and 1B was not occupied/used.

    Oh, and I usually only charge at home. This was the first time in a year of ownership that I actually used Superchargers.
     
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  9. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    That seems to be the popular theory around these threads, but has Tesla ever confirmed it? I asked the tech working on my Tesla a month ago about this and he said the 75D should still be able to charge at 120kW.

    Last summer and early fall I was routinely charging in the high 90s. Now that my average is 40s and 50s, I do consider almost double that speed to be "much faster." 87kW for me is now absurdly rare, and even if I can touch that speed it never lasts more than a few minutes no matter my SoC or other clearly observable conditions.
     
  10. ucmndd

    ucmndd Member

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    The lower voltage of the 75kwh packs necessarily results in a lower supercharging speed than the higher voltage 90kwh+ packs. I can't speak to any sort of confirmation by Tesla, but anecdotally based on my own experience and that of every other owner that has reported on this subject here, max Supercharging rate on the 60/75 packs in the real world is ~100kw. It doesn't get any faster than that.
     
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  11. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    I will bring this up again the next contact I have with Tesla, since this goes against what I was directly told by Tesla tech staff last month.

    Would have been great to know that, if true, before buying the car. I was sold on the idea of 80% charges in 30 minutes, as frequently advertised by Tesla. I count myself lucky if I can get 80% in 1 hour. Now that sales pitch seems so shady, along with them hiding the true cost of buying their product on the design studio. Seriously, if I had known that a 70D or 75D cannot charge at 120kW, which Tesla has NEVER reported to be the case from anything I've seen, and which directly contradicts what I was told firsthand by Tesla tech staff, I would have most likely purchased a 90D instead. Charging at 120kW is that important to me. And if Tesla knows this to be the case, why lie about it? Instead, using it as a sales tactic to get folks in those bigger battery vehicles (you will be able to charge significantly faster as an added bonus for shelling out the extra cash for a bigger battery!).
     
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  12. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    For the hell of it, I figured I would post my service and battery log here in case any of this information may, in some way, contribute to my current slower supercharging speeds or be useful to anyone looking at current maintenance issues they may experience after purchasing a relatively new (May 2016 refresh) car and putting a lot of miles on it rather quickly:


    Service (6 Tesla Service visits total - 3 in Seattle, 2 in Portland, and 1 in Santa Barbara)
    1. 07-02-2016 - 9.5k miles - Alignment (Tesla charged me $125), rattles (Tesla addressed), Supercharging errors during road trip (Tesla said the fault was with the chargers and not my car), and tech found that the front made creaking noise when wheel was turned to extremes (Tesla installed nylon washers).

    2. 08-19-2016 - 16k miles - LED headlamp failed (Tesla replaced), mobile charger failed (Tesla replaced), rattles (Tesla addressed).

    3. 10-31-2016 - 24.5k miles - Rattles (Tesla addressed), purchased 25k mile service ($700), and purchased 75D OTA upgrade ($3200 - Tesla installed new badge).

    4. 11-14-2016 - 26k miles - Rattles (Tesla addressed) and rear driver door handle was squeaking when extended/retracted (Tesla realigned handle).

    5. 01-02-2017 - 32k miles - Rear passenger tire blew out (was still using OEM Goodyear Eagle Touring tires) while on a mountain outside of Ventura, CA with no cell reception (had to hitchhike down the mountain and call Tesla service when service was available again… Tesla gave me a loaner tire to make it back to WA [approximately 1k miles away] - Had 4 new Michelins installed at a local Costco upon returning home).

    6. 05-26-2017 - 44.5k miles - Charge port error (Tesla replaced charge port), bluetooth error (Tesla determined this to be a bug and so they didn’t need to take action), and consistently slow Supercharger speeds that are never able to top 87kW regardless of location or conditions (Tesla escalated issue to engineering - still waiting to hear back).

    7. 06-21-2017 - 46k miles - Having sent a few case example e-mails to Tesla regarding my slow Supercharging speeds and having heard nothing from them in nearly a month since my last service visit, I called Tesla Service Seattle and spoke with Brandon who said he would escalate my case again and make sure the case example e-mail with pictures was forwarded to engineering. He thanked me for my patience and said that I should hear something “soon.

    Battery
    1. 75D is EPA rated at 259 miles (according to Tesla)

    2. My car achieves 247 EPA rated miles at 100% charge as of 05-31-2017
      1. Car charges to 90% (or currently 222 rated miles) on a nightly basis and has been garage kept about half of its life (it did have to endure several months where temps dipped below freezing outside of a garage).

      2. Car is charged to 100% at least twice a month, sometimes 4 times within a month to allow me to drive to the airport and back on a single charge (I live in rural WA).

      3. Car has been on 2 long distance road trips, one of them 6k miles roundtrip, and has used many different Superchargers in 12 different states.

      4. Car has rolled in at Supercharges with 3-4 rated miles on a few occasions during the colder months.
     
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  13. andrewket

    andrewket Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I experienced similiar in a P90D recently in Georgia and Florida. I opened a case and was told the superchargers that I happened to use were running in degraded mode. It wasn't my car. I didn't get any more details; if it was heat related (the SpC cabinets also have thermal protections, just like the battery packs), maintenance issue, or a peak power limit (this has happened in Cali).

    NC, SC, and Virginia were all fine. What was particularly strange was that peak power would initially climb near the expected range but then drop back down after 30 seconds. This made me think is was a thermal issue.
     
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  14. JHWJR

    JHWJR Member

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    FWIW: I had no problem with the OP proactively clarifying that he was not looking for basic charging tips.
     
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  15. smsprague

    smsprague Member

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    I get similar results at the Casa Grande AZ super charger. I use it about 2 times a month. This started late last year. On the same trip I also stop at the Cordes Lakes AZ super charger and alway get st least 120 kw. Kinda frustrating.
     
  16. smsprague

    smsprague Member

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    I mean at least 110 kw.
     
  17. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get the idea of 80% in 30 minutes? Tesla has always said up to 80% in 40 minutes.
     
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  18. Galve2000

    Galve2000 Member

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    I have had a similar experience at the Tarrytown, NY SC. It could be that the car that arrived after you and is sharing your pair had a much lower SOC than you did, perhaps it would take over as the "master" and you would be relegated to the "slave." or -- and I am speculating here -- maybe larger battery size (which means 400 V cells) will automatically take over the dominant charging position when paired against a 75 battery (whose cells max out at 350 V) irrespective of the SOC.

    for me, the most alarming experience was a different time I was at Tarrytown SC and I was the only car charging in 6A at the whole site. A Model X pulls up 15 minutes after me and plugs into 3A or 3B, I could not tell which but it wasn't a shared stall. My kW dropped from ~65 kW to 49 kW and while I was at above 50% SOC at this point, i was nowhere near 90%. This leads me to believe that Tesla is throttling charging speeds site wide to avoid high commercial power demand charges.

    but no one knows for sure.
     
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  19. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    This is something us CA folks have been following for some time now... IMHO, Tesla has a thermal management problem that will NOT be easy to solve... First, the SC cabinets where the A/C to DC conversation occurs is only air cooled, secondly and probably more importantly, the physical connector to the car builds up resistance each time it's used as more wear is added to the actual connectors which over time causes resistance which causes heat which causes throttling...

    I don't see how Tesla can solve those two issues with a complete redesign of the SC cabinet and pedestal including cable and the physical interface to the cars charge port... Unless the heat can be managed, there are going to be limitations to charging rate...

    Jeff
     
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  20. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    I stand corrected.
     
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