Supercharger getting mostly Chademo speeds

[stopcrazypp]

I will bring this up again the next contact I have with Tesla, since this goes against what I was directly told by Tesla tech staff last month.

Would have been great to know that, if true, before buying the car. I was sold on the idea of 80% charges in 30 minutes, as frequently advertised by Tesla. I count myself lucky if I can get 80% in 1 hour. Now that sales pitch seems so shady, along with them hiding the true cost of buying their product on the design studio. Seriously, if I had known that a 70D or 75D cannot charge at 120kW, which Tesla has NEVER reported to be the case from anything I've seen, and which directly contradicts what I was told firsthand by Tesla tech staff, I would have most likely purchased a 90D instead. Charging at 120kW is that important to me. And if Tesla knows this to be the case, why lie about it? Instead, using it as a sales tactic to get folks in those bigger battery vehicles (you will be able to charge significantly faster as an added bonus for shelling out the extra cash for a bigger battery!).

You are giving too much credit to techs. While they have more experience on the tech side than a generic sales staff, they may not necessarily know specific limits for all the models. Even when talking to an actual Tesla engineer (at corporate), unless they worked on the supercharger side, they may not necessarily know it either (for example they may have been a drivetrain engineer instead).

But in this case, the Tech may have been confused by the "true" 70D (older 2015 era) which actually had a 70kWh battery. That one can get to ~116kW. The software limited 70D (which is actually a 75D) can only get to ~100 kW max. You have the latter.

From this conversation:
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

85kWh A packs ~90kW max
85kWh non-A packs ~120kW max
60 and software limited 60/70/75 kWh ~100 kW max
70kWh (older true 70, not software limited 75kWh) ~116 kW max
90kWh (pre-refresh) ~116kW max
90kWh (newer refresh) ~113kW max (but is overall faster than even the 85kWh due to different taper)
100kWh ~120kW max (but overall is faster due to different taper)

Note, many of these numbers are "all stars aligned" numbers (in some cases only a handful of reports of reaching these speeds).

 

[Robbit]

"I am currently charging at the Centralia supercharger.

Had to do a double take, because I thought you were talking about Centralia PA. Burning hot coal powered supercharger!

 

[Mattzilla]

Ok, just got off the phone with Tesla engineering. Here is my log...

06-22-2017 - 46k miles - David, Tesla engineer, called me and said that my charge rate was being limited due to too many DCFC sessions. I explained that I have less than 100 DCFC sessions and asked what the limit was before Tesla begins throttling charge rates. He said that Tesla doesn't make the number known to the public. I then inquired about my average speeds being around 50kW. David said he didn't know why that would be but to keep an eye on the car and contact Tesla if an error appears during Supercharging. David said the car is good at self-diagnosis and it will let me know if anything is wrong.

Overall, disappointing, dismissive response.

 

[jelloslug]

The lower voltage of the 75kwh packs necessarily results in a lower supercharging speed than the higher voltage 90kwh+ packs. I can't speak to any sort of confirmation by Tesla, but anecdotally based on my own experience and that of every other owner that has reported on this subject here, max Supercharging rate on the 60/75 packs in the real world is ~100kw. It doesn't get any faster than that.

I have never seen supercharging over 100kw in my 75D.

 

[Naonak]

The counter is based off of the number of kWh charged, not off number of DCFC sessions. Just and FYI.

The fact that you have reached it with less than 100 DCFC sessions is very worrisome. I don't know when I hit my threshold, but it was less than 200ish on my part... maybe it was throttled as early as the 100ish mark as well.

If this is the new trend, I think Tesla is going to have a huge PR nightmare on their hands. Previously, it had looked like it was limited to the 90 packs, but if it's creeping in to other packs as well... ugh.

 

[smac]

I have never seen supercharging over 100kw in my 75D.

Just be grateful... CHAdeMO is normally faster than SpC's in my experience of driving an original 60

(The low speed SOC in fairness is faster, but often the CHAdeMO points are more convenient but located at points where a "cheeky 50 mile boost" occur at higher SOC's which coincides with my need for a caffeine boost).

To use an old ICE drag racing term, it's about "area under the curve", more than peak numbers.

 

[MP3Mike]

The counter is based off of the number of kWh charged

Did you get that information from Tesla? (I don't recall seeing that.)

 

[Naonak]

Did you get that information from Tesla? (I don't recall seeing that.)

Yes I did... I had a couple follow up calls with upper management to discuss the issue and they clarified that it was time based, not count based... But they wouldn't tell me what the hour threshold was, not sure why... maybe they didn't know, or it might be based on battery health somehow, so each car might be different.

I reported that in the giant thread somewhere about 2 weeks ago I think.

 

[Mattzilla]

Or perhaps they simple don't want that information to be public. That's what I was told by the engineer earlier today.

 

[MP3Mike]

I had a couple follow up calls with upper management to discuss the issue and they clarified that it was time based, not count based...

Just to be clear time based would mean it isn't based on the number of kWhs charged. 1 hour at 50kW is 50kWhs, but 30 minutes at 100kW is also 50kWhs. Depending on how/where you charge that could be better or worse. You normally spend longer on a CHAdeMO charger, so that is bad. Also, if you Supercharge from 80%-100% you really get dinged on the time based vs. kWhs based version.

 

[Tennisballer]

I simply disagree with this mythical 100kw max for smaller packs. I have 70s and routinely on trips run it to 0 miles range left. It always churches at 110-119 KW until it starts tapering. Some chargers I have found maintain higher KW than others. As I always make the same trip to Orlando I know which chargers are usually slow and which ones are faster.

 

[kavyboy]

I simply disagree with this mythical 100kw max for smaller packs

S70 here as well, and it is the same for me. Recently started with a SOC far from 0 and got 112kW, if I remember right. I walked away and wondered if I had see that correctly, so I walked back and saw it was at 100kW and not tapering quickly.
I kind of wonder what's up with this battery, not that I'm complaining. I'm 2 years and 13,000 miles in with no degradation. I can charge at higher rates than some say is possible. I'm at 242 miles rated range, which is above spec. And I consistently get very close to rated range at highway speeds.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I swear, Tesla's shadiness "goes to 11". For those of us who been around these forums for quite a while remember quite well there being tons of speculation as well as a fair amount of hemming and hawing about whether the high spc rate would somehow degrade our batteries faster, to which there was numerous reports from Tesla (some even in writing IIRC) that this would not be the case. Yet another exaggerated promise bent to the point of almost breaking. I really love my car but hate how this company can't be honest. Their products don't require smoke and mirrors. They are awesome enough to stand on their own without fudging or leaving out key caveats that would be important to owners to know going into their purchases. I'm sure many would have been much more conservative in their spc sessions had they known there was a hiddenkw counter that would eventually impose a capped limit on their speed, forever limiting their car. And for those who might say "well maybe they just added it and it wasn't there from the beginning? Leave my favorite idol Elon alone he can do no wrong!!" Where was the communication?? Why do OWNERS have to keep finding these limitors like the launches and now this??? For shame Tesla. For shame.

I had planned to upgrade my MS to a new AP2 version once they upgraded the center console screen and compute, and maybe get a Model Y for the Mrs. Now I'm definitely going to look hard at the Bolt for her and may not go with another Tesla if other companies can reach parity in performance, range, and styling

 

[jelloslug]

I simply disagree with this mythical 100kw max for smaller packs. I have 70s and routinely on trips run it to 0 miles range left. It always churches at 110-119 KW until it starts tapering. Some chargers I have found maintain higher KW than others. As I always make the same trip to Orlando I know which chargers are usually slow and which ones are faster.

I can say that with my 75D I have never seen anything more than 100kw.

 

[Mattzilla]

I swear, Tesla's shadiness "goes to 11". For those of us who been around these forums for quite a while remember quite well there being tons of speculation as well as a fair amount of hemming and hawing about whether the high spc rate would somehow degrade our batteries faster, to which there was numerous reports from Tesla (some even in writing IIRC) that this would not be the case. Yet another exaggerated promise bent to the point of almost breaking. I really love my car but hate how this company can't be honest. Their products don't require smoke and mirrors. They are awesome enough to stand on their own without fudging or leaving out key caveats that would be important to owners to know going into their purchases. I'm sure many would have been much more conservative in their spc sessions had they known there was a hiddenkw counter that would eventually impose a capped limit on their speed, forever limiting their car. And for those who might say "well maybe they just added it and it wasn't there from the beginning? Leave my favorite idol Elon alone he can do no wrong!!" Where was the communication?? Why do OWNERS have to keep finding these limitors like the launches and now this??? For shame Tesla. For shame.

I had planned to upgrade my MS to a new AP2 version once they upgraded the center console screen and compute, and maybe get a Model Y for the Mrs. Now I'm definitely going to look hard at the Bolt for her and may not go with another Tesla if other companies can reach parity in performance, range, and styling

Exactly. They have the high road with their goal of a self-sufficient world. And they have an amazing, compelling product that is an engineering marvel. There is simply no need for these sleazy sales tactics. None at all.

You're better than this, Tesla. Tell consumers the truth so they can make better informed purchasing decisions. Don't deceive. Don't slant. Just be real, man.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

No kidding. Under promise and over deliver. It's really not rocket surgery... For years there was nobody that could touch their specs on these cars and even recently only the Bolt is matching range, although not performance and features... In 2012 they could've underquoted specs and still have had a huge gap between them and the extremely sparse competition... Even the battery packs weren't true 85kwh but they had it on their website and marketed them as such, stuck the badge on and let them roll out the door. Really?

 

[smsprague]

Bad as usual.

 

[MP3Mike]

I simply disagree with this mythical 100kw max for smaller packs. I have 70s and routinely on trips run it to 0 miles range left. It always churches at 110-119 KW until it starts tapering.

Do you have a software limited 75kWh pack, or do you have a real 70kWh pack? (The 100kW limit only applies to the newer 75kWh pack.)

 

[MP3Mike]

S70 here as well, and it is the same for me. Recently started with a SOC far from 0 and got 112kW, if I remember right.

Same question do you have a real 70kWh pack, or is it a software limited 75kWh pack?

 

[kavyboy]

Same question do you have a real 70kWh pack, or is it a software limited 75kWh pack?

There's no option on My Tesla to upgrade.