Max kWh should have said max kW in that last screenshot. Oops!
Here's maybe a better representation that shows calculated average charge rates:
Here's maybe a better representation that shows calculated average charge rates:
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In theory, an arriving Tesla that connects to the same shared pair should not affect your charge rate. I don't know why Tesla has a hard time getting this right. The first to connect to a pair should receive priority.
hill
high fiber member
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https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...sla-will-permanently-throttle-charging.90230/
In the link above above, the OP in that thread wrongly assumed their CHAdeMO useage had some effect . . . . others were thinking something else. While still others claimed a phone person was some kind of authority . . . . yes . . . the same phone people who tell 1/3 of people the MX ghosting windshield has a fix in the works, while others say they've never heard of such a thing, while the last 1/3 say it's normal.
Those phone workers? just wondering
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Our 75D regularly get 95-100kWh when the pack is Sub 20% charged - up to at least 40%.
Link? Hope the one below is not the 'authority'.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...sla-will-permanently-throttle-charging.90230/
In the link above above, the OP in that thread wrongly assumed their CHAdeMO useage had some effect . . . . others were thinking something else. While still others claimed a phone person was some kind of authority . . . . yes . . . the same phone people who tell 1/3 of people the MX ghosting windshield has a fix in the works, while others say they've never heard of such a thing, while the last 1/3 say it's normal.
Those phone workers? just wondering
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Our 75D regularly get 95-100kWh when the pack is Sub 20% charged - up to at least 40%.
Link? Hope the one below is not the 'authority'.
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging
In the link above above, the OP in that thread wrongly assumed their CHAdeMO useage had some effect . . . . others were thinking something else. While still others claimed a phone person was some kind of authority . . . . yes . . . the same phone people who tell 1/3 of people the MX ghosting windshield has a fix in the works, while others say they've never heard of such a thing, while the last 1/3 say it's normal.
Those phone workers? just wondering
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I am the OP of that thread. If you read the entire thread, your questions are answered. But to be brief, the information comes from a combination of JohnMc (President of Global sales), upper management (that wishes to remain anonymous as far as I know), service blogs (internal), and service techs. Specifically, the number of KWh charged vs a session counter came from upper management.
I'm not sure why you think that thread isn't an authority, the OP, myself, clearly established the assertion, backed it up with facts, and then was confirmed by numerous sources within Tesla, including the President of Global Sales. So I'm not sure what more authority you want out of that thread. Yes, CHAdeMO had some effect, it has ALL the effect, since it is a fast charging solution. Where on earth are you getting your information that CHAdeMO did not have an effect? That is completely and 100% incorrect information.
The bottom line is that fast charging a Model S (P)90D will cause your battery to eventually enter a reduced charging state after an unknown (but less than 6 MW) number of KWh charged. This is an established fact, verified and acknowledged by Tesla corporate. I am not happy about it, because even if you switch out your battery for a new 90 pack, the problem WILL eventually happen again at some unspecified time in the future.
If I had known this when I purchased the vehicle, I would have opted for an 85 pack or waited for a 100 pack.
hill
high fiber member
i'm not doubting your veracity - it's just incredible (to say the least) that only off the record tesla 'officials' (ie hearsay) say it's a quantity of kWh's that kill SC speed. However, without creating flack, we personally know TWO owners (neither who have 70's or 90's) who will remain anonymous (probably freaking it's being mentioned to this extent) that exceed the quasi nebulous thresholds .... and they're ok. Yea maybe your source is partly true. But w/out saying any more, I hope you'll hear this ... there is at least a tad of contravening (albeit hearsay too) evidence.
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hill
high fiber member
I already posted how there are reasons why Tesla would want to deny the obvious. What's obviuos is maintenance issue. So believe him if you want. similarly, believe his reasons for not putting it in writing if you want. I will spare you the baffled looking icon - because if it relates to your trust in an authority who doesn't want something in writing - then that again says volumes more than his unwillingness to document it.
Electricfan
Active Member
Has anybody tweeted this question to Elon? Probably he won't answer, but it would help get the word out - we need to be asking this because it affects all new owners (and all old owners who want to trade in). If enough people keep asking they'll have to address it publicly eventually. Its not a small thing, like a few kwh off on the badge (to some people its small, others big, but whatever). Its major if the new batteries get throttled if they're fast-charged too often. They have to disclose it if its real, affecting all new batteries.
Electricfan
Active Member
When/if you sell your car, what do you tell a prospective buyer? If you tell them it routinely charges at slower rates at superchargers because Tesla is throttling due to DCFC issues, that's going to kill your resale value. If you don't, do you feel good about it? And what if they find out that you knew and didn't tell them? I point this out because it seems some people are saying - "ho hum, big deal" and not realizing it is a freaking big deal. And if the new battery chemistry won't allow significant numbers of stops at superchargers without throttling, they have to disclose that on their website, not hide it. Its fraud not to disclose it, IMHO.
Good question/point.
Honestly, I don't plan to sell or trade this car. I'm the type of dude who keeps things forever. Cars, usually drive them until they simply don't drive anymore. I'm hoping to get 10 years out of my S.
But hypothetically speaking, since I'm an honest guy, if I were to sell the car I would be honest about my observed supercharger speeds.
In regards to Tesla, my guess is they simply didn't know beforehand that the new chemistry would do this, and they are being reactive. Maybe they are still putting some data together and they don't want to release a wider statement until they can put a positive spin on things somehow. Their current statement on the matter, that it only adds 5 minutes, is their first attempt at putting a positive spin on this issue, but I hope they quickly realize that it's complete horsesh*t and not acceptable in cases like mine where it clearly adds more like 30 minutes or more to my supercharging sessions.
In a previous post, I mentioned that I too had a sudden decrease in charging speed. Well, after going on a 400 mile trip and using 3 different Supercharging locations, I was getting full normal speed again. Running the AC on a 80 degree day while charging didn't seem to impact speed either. So for whatever reason when my wife plugged in that one time in Sandy, it decided to charge slowly.
Matt,
With the fact the car does ramp up to normal speed and then suddenly slows down, that sounds like the car is wanting to charge at full speed but detects a problem and slows down. With it happening at every location, maybe it's something with the car itself and not the charger. Have you tried cleaning the charging port? If it's dirty, that can cause resistance which may trigger the car to slow down. Regardless, keep pressuring Tesla on this. The fact the car charges at full speed really seems to indicate it wants to charger normally but something triggers a slow down.
Matt,
With the fact the car does ramp up to normal speed and then suddenly slows down, that sounds like the car is wanting to charge at full speed but detects a problem and slows down. With it happening at every location, maybe it's something with the car itself and not the charger. Have you tried cleaning the charging port? If it's dirty, that can cause resistance which may trigger the car to slow down. Regardless, keep pressuring Tesla on this. The fact the car charges at full speed really seems to indicate it wants to charger normally but something triggers a slow down.
My car has never charged at "full speed." The max speed I am have been able to obtain since last fall is 87kW, and it normally only lasts 30 seconds to about 2 minutes before I'm back down in the 50kW area. I have e-mailed and called Tesla on this issue many times and they are not changing their response, which is either silence or my car is being throttled.
My car is spotless and I clean it regularly. Charge port looks brand new and if you read my service log you'll see they recently replaced it due to charge port errors I was receiving. I've tested at 4 different locations since then and it did not affect my slow speeds.
Demoralized, I've given up and simply won't use the car for long range travel anymore. Problem is solved from Tesla's point of view. One less car clogging up Superchargers when the 3 is released.
gabeincal
Active Member
I think that your case (being 30 minutes longer to charge) is unacceptable and I would push Tesla to replace the pack, since you did nothing wrong from the start of the ownership, used it as it's meant to be, yet it's way below the charging rate of what you should reasonably expect from a similar car. Your resale value is hurt, your time is hurt and frankly I can understand why you don't want to take it to long range travel. Seriously very sorry for your inconvenience...
Electricfan
Active Member
I agree - something is wrong with your pack. And they owe you a new one. But good luck getting it. Because that would open the door to pack replacements for everybody who uses fast-charging DC chargers regularly, which is a door they can't open. You're also owed a new pack because your car's resale value is shot, I'm sorry to say. I mean, can you imagine the conversation with a prospective buyer?
You: I've kept it in perfect shape, as you can see.
Prospective buyer: How have you treated the battery?
You: I charged mostly at home, but also frequently at Superchargers and also CHAdeMO chargers.
Prospective buyer: So, how long does it take you to charge to 80% at a supercharger?
You: Well, its supposed to be about 40 minutes, but my car takes an hour.
Prospective buyer: see ya
I mean seriously, I can't imagine anyone buying your car for the price of a similar vehicle that does not have the throttled supercharging. They're going to want at least 10k in discount for that. Somebody will still want your car, but nobody will pay what you'd get without the throttling.
What if you take it to Carmax, just to get rid of it? The new buyer isn't going to be told it has throttled supercharging. They're going to find out the hard way, and sue Carmax (which doesn't break my heart), but then Carmax will stop buying Teslas. There's no end to the bad here.
You: I've kept it in perfect shape, as you can see.
Prospective buyer: How have you treated the battery?
You: I charged mostly at home, but also frequently at Superchargers and also CHAdeMO chargers.
Prospective buyer: So, how long does it take you to charge to 80% at a supercharger?
You: Well, its supposed to be about 40 minutes, but my car takes an hour.
Prospective buyer: see ya
I mean seriously, I can't imagine anyone buying your car for the price of a similar vehicle that does not have the throttled supercharging. They're going to want at least 10k in discount for that. Somebody will still want your car, but nobody will pay what you'd get without the throttling.
What if you take it to Carmax, just to get rid of it? The new buyer isn't going to be told it has throttled supercharging. They're going to find out the hard way, and sue Carmax (which doesn't break my heart), but then Carmax will stop buying Teslas. There's no end to the bad here.
DB 2
Member
I have not seen anyone else with a refreshed 60/75 that can get peak supercharging above 100 kW. Next time it is convenient, could you check the touchscreen or mobile app when supercharging from a low SoC and see if it agrees with your TeslaFi numbers? A screenshot would be great. I'm wondering if TeslaFi has a bug. If not, this is news (at least to me). Thanks.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'm guessing he means that kWh's is energy accumulated over time, as opposed to just counting charge sessions.
Fastest existing photo/screenshot I have shows 97kW. I'll keep an eye out the next few times I supercharge and see if I can capture anything above 100. (I don't recall ever seeing it go above 100, though the data above appears to indicate it did. Like you said though, could be a bug in how teslafi is capturing the data... or how I'm interpreting it). Usually it goes a LOT slower ;-)
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