Supercharger Idle Fees too harsh IMO

[MIT_S60]

Glad the OP figured it out, but another thought....the app should notify you when you're about to get charged an idle fee. This way, you don't have to monitor the situation so vigilantly and if your charging is complete but the rest of the stalls are empty, you don't have to worry about rushing to move your car. The idle fee notification is a red flag that you had better get out to your car and move it.

I would like the app to have a live counter showing the time since charge completed and the cost incurred as a stopwatch.

 

[Nathanael]

Glad the OP figured it out, but another thought....the app should notify you when you're about to get charged an idle fee. This way, you don't have to monitor the situation so vigilantly and if your charging is complete but the rest of the stalls are empty, you don't have to worry about rushing to move your car. The idle fee notification is a red flag that you had better get out to your car and move it.

This was exactly my original point! When charging estimates 30-60 minutes, thats a difference between getting fast food, or having a decent sit down meal at a restaurant - I dont mind moving my car mid meal if the notifications work properly

 

[richrootes]

Two more things to consider

1 - Not everyone has a smartphone
2 - If they do, they may be from outside of your country without a roaming package

For what it’s worth, I believe the idle fees to be justified and at the right level - currently. Like anywhere, there are people that have a lot of money and might be more than willing to pay the fees - you only have to look at the number of parking tickets some individuals accumulate. Tesla will have to come up with stiffer penalties for such offenders....

 

[outdoors]

The 100% charge recommendation, just like the intricate single-hand driving position recommendation to counter Autopilot nags (instead of safely driving with two hands), are clear symptoms of a policy/technology gone wrong IMO.

The 5 minute limit on a variable-speed event (Supercharging with taper, pairing events, various conditions of chargers) without fully reliable notifications (they are not), is obviously a very harsh one.

Someone charging to 100% and thus slowing things down even more (and possibly forgetting their setting at 100% which is not good long-term) is not a good solution. That final 10% can keep the charger occupied far longer for far less benefit than a slighly more lenient return time would.

The debate on what is a reasonable policy for this rages on, I'm sure, because there certainly are many legitimate views to what is reasonable. But charging to 100% unnecessarily should never be the solution - that just goes to show there is a problem with the policy, if that is what happens.

The problem isn't people overstaying for 6 minutes, not even 15 minutes. Someone charging to 100% unnecessarily will cause a much longer delay. IMO a good start would be moving the 5 minute grace to 15 minutes. That would be more reasonable, for a variable-speed event one can't fully plan for.

I know people have many opinions on this, but simply because Tesla chose certain grace levels, doesn't mean those are exactly the optimal ones or fairest ones.

Love the out of context quote trying to compare overstaying a welcome to driving unsafe or dangerous. Which neither I do. Really? I appreciate your opinion most often. This time your AP behavior talk belongs in some other correct thread.

For you to assume charging to 100% is not appropriate for a road tripper or someone on a long trip that can't stop on a return is well.....
I highly doubt you or anyone I know that is a Tesla owner is going to ask someone if they are or are planning to charge to 100%. If they did. I would continue on my jaunt wherever it may be.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Love the out of context quote trying to compare overstaying a welcome to driving unsafe or dangerous. Which neither I do. Really? I appreciate your opinion most often. This time your AP behavior talk belongs in some other correct thread.

For you to assume charging to 100% is not appropriate for a road tripper or someone on a long trip that can't stop on a return is well.....
I highly doubt you or anyone I know that is a Tesla owner is going to ask someone if they are or are planning to charge to 100%. If they did. I would continue on my jaunt wherever it may be.

No worries. It was just a comparison to illustrate my point. I don't think the idle fee is comparable or a major issue, just a small nuisance - and one that IMO could be better thought out.

My point was simple, really: If policy results in unwanted recommendations, then IMO it reeks of bad policy. We should rarely accept unwanted recommendations as as acceptable solution IMO. "Charge to 100%" thus is not IMO a good answer to people lamenting the difficulty of estimating within 5 minutes how long a charge takes. (If it was recommended here for other reasons, then those may well be OK of course, like if someone needs the 100%.)

- Recommending AP drivers to use one hand instead of two hands (which is safer) to avoid nags. Unwanted recommendation, result of limitations in technology (difficulty of AP in recognizing hands, especially two hands).

- Recommending SpC users to use 100% charging (which is bad in many ways) as a solution to difficulty in estimating charge time within 5 minutes. Unwanted recommendation, result of limitations in technology (difficulty of estimating SpC charge time, especially at under 100% level which may complete quickly).

It would simply be better in these cases to solve the actual issue better, rather than offer unoptimal workarounds.

 

[FlatSix911]

Idle fees just went up... Tesla increases Supercharger idle fees to decrease wait times

The automaker has now updated it to make it both more lenient when the stations are not seeing high usage and more aggressive if they are full. Starting now, the fee is going up to $0.50 per minute if a station is at least 50% full. If the station is 100% full, the fee goes up to US$1 per minute: Country Currency Idle fee 50% (per minute) Idle fee (per minute) when the station is 100% occupied

• United States $0.50 / $1.00
• Canada CAD $0.65 / $1.30

As first announced with the original Supercharger idle fee, if the owner unplugs the vehicle within 5 minutes after the car is full, the fee is waived. To be clear, this fee is completely separate from the Supercharger paid model, which charges by the kWh or minute of charging for vehicles without the free unlimited Supercharging program.

 

[jk123]

Nothing slows a road trip or a long day on the road to come to a supercharger and having to get a paired stall with someone charging. All because someone else wanted to get their Thai food, or have a sit down dinner. Takes me twice as long to charge. Trust me I would love to walk to whatever food court your talking about, but I would feel like crap making some mom with two screaming kids take an extra 20 min to charge because of it.

Check the app. Watch your taper. I think I check my app almost every 5 to 10 min to check charge rate etc..don't expect the pushes to always make it to phone. About 70% of the time I get mine.

Echo above. If you don't want the fees. Move it too 100%. If you don't want to go to 100% go move your car. A SC does not equal reserved spots for Tesla's.

On many occasions I have commented to my wife. Where are all the Tesla's? Walk into a store and come out and to see the SC at 80-100% occupied. This happens much more in highly populated areas. Wish there was a way on the app to see how full the SC is, but there are much more pressing issues currently at Tesla.

20 Superchargers and 2 occupied? That is strange to get an idle fee.

I 100% agree with everything written here. In fact, I wrote to Tesla today asking them to INCREASE the idle fee.

Today, I rolled into a very busy parking lot to super charge - 9/10 spots were taken (the 10th was not working). Out of the 9 spots, only two owners responsibly charged - the others left their cars for at least 20 minutes over time while the rest of us continued to wait in a growing line.

Said as kindly as possible, but entitled attitudes where one prefers to finish eating his/her sandwich for an hour while the rest of us Tesla owners wait in line during our very busy days is quite irritating. Those of us in line were baffled at the lack of consideration. I'm not referring to the original poster, as the poster claims the station was not full.

I think Tesla should DOUBLE idle fees . I don't mind waiting in line as much when people are charging and leaving when the charge is done.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Today, I rolled into a very busy parking lot to super charge - 9/10 spots were taken (the 10th was not working). Out of the 9 spots, only two owners responsibly charged - the others left their cars for at least 20 minutes over time while the rest of us continued to wait in a growing line.

Just curious, but how do you know they stayed 20 minutes extra?

 

[jk123]

Well, the OP’s going to really hate one of my feature requests, that being to increase idle fees to $60/hr after 60 minutes lifetime per vehicle and to $300/hr after 120 minutes lifetime.

The worst threat to SC demand management is not ICEing by ICEs, livery impact, or the mythical freeloading garaged local. In fact, that worst threat is ICEing by our own.

It’s simply good practice at a busy SC to be back at yer chariot a couple of minutes before yer charge is complete. Not when it completes and not 5 minutes after. Remember, if you’re on time, you’re late.

Unfortunately, Tesla has insisted upon putting SCs at malls. This causes an inherent conflict of interest often painfully witnessed at SC Grand Openings. Without going down that rabbit hole, one might want to consider planning one’s nutritional needs in advance (bring a sandwich and some bottled water). Stop at a Subway - generally cheaper than standard mall fare, and healthier as well, presuming one makes good choices.

Imagine how it would go over at the local Costco (the three locations nearest to me routinely have 20-25 minute lines after work and on weekends) if someone sat in their vehicle for an extra 5 minutes after their pump stopped. Or left their vehicle and didn’t return until 15 minutes after their tabk was full. They’d be skinned alive. With enthusiasm.

Puts those $60/hr idle fees in perspective, doesn’t it.

And yes, more information about both site load and individual pedestal health in advance would be very helpful - and also the subject of yet another feature request.

Just curious, but how do you know they stayed 20 minutes extra?

Max charge time is 30 minutes - I was in line for at least 30 minutes.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Max charge time is 30 minutes - I was in line for at least 30 minutes.

Thirty minutes?! I've never seen a time limit that low. My S-60 is so slow charging that I could never charge enough to make a trip leg in thirty minutes. A typical road trip Supercharging stop in my car is fifty minutes to an hour and a half, depending on the length of the trip leg.

Thirty minutes must be a big city thing. Too short to be useful in my older car when on a road trip.

 

[jk123]

The point is that there is an ecosystem that works when people follow the rules. Today, I went back to the station and was very irritated that I waited in line about a half hour and when I was done charging a half hour later, only three cars had left the station in that total amount of time. Aren't Tesla owners in general supposedly more eco friendly? How does that not translate to consideration to people who need to charge?

As an aside, it is a bit shocking that your S-60 takes so long to charge.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...
As an aside, it is a bit shocking that your S-60 takes so long to charge.

That's why I mentioned it. Most people with newer or larger battery cars don't understand how slowly the S-60s charge, in part because of a slow rate and in part because of a need to charge to a much higher SOC to make the next trip leg. It is what it is — I've Supercharged my S-60 more than 345 times, every one of them on road trips since I have no local Supercharger Stations where I live.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Yeah that was going to be my follow up question. Would be great if that was included in the app, it would benefit everybody! Im sure people would move their car if they knew there was a sudden queue!

While not completely accurate, it does show information that in the application on the charging screen. Just scroll down.

And I'm someone who routinely moves their car when we stop for a meal on a road-trip. Meals (as opposed to quick snacks) take much longer than charges, so I often pop-out to fetch the car.

 

[jk123]

Yet another day that I'm waiting in line while people leave their cars for hours. It's so frustrating because I gave up some convenience to buy an environmentally friendly car but when other owners don't act in an environmentally friendly manner, it causes other people to not be able to either.

 

[Lloyd]

Should be higher!!

 

[jk123]

Part of the problem may be that too many Tesla owners are too darned wealthy to care about overage charges.

 

[jk123]

That's why I mentioned it. Most people with newer or larger battery cars don't understand how slowly the S-60s charge, in part because of a slow rate and in part because of a need to charge to a much higher SOC to make the next trip leg. It is what it is — I've Supercharged my S-60 more than 345 times, every one of them on road trips since I have no local Supercharger Stations where I live.

But the POINT is that if the charging max is set to 30 minutes, how long it technically takes for your car to charge is irrelevant.

 

[dgpcolorado]

But the POINT is that if the charging max is set to 30 minutes, how long it technically takes for your car to charge is irrelevant.

And my point is that 30 minutes is not nearly long enough to do a reasonable trip leg, the ostensible purpose of Supercharger Stations.

I presume that this is a big city thing and that there are lots of alternative Supercharger Stations nearby, making the time limit moot for traveling. That is not the case in much of the country. I encountered a 45 minute sign at San Clemente last year. That wasn't enough time for me to make my destination so I charged longer. Since the station wasn't full it didn't matter much.

 

[MountainRatMat]

Yeah that was going to be my follow up question. Would be great if that was included in the app, it would benefit everybody! Im sure people would move their car if they knew there was a sudden queue!

I completely disagree, when your car is charged, move it. Period.

The system isn't perfect but it is waaaaay better than any other charging network out there and we need to be respectful of other people that need to charge. What if the station is less than half full and then 5 cars show up to charge? I live in Southern California and this is a regular occurrence. Station will go from empty to full in 5 min.

If the walk is too far and you anticipate a quick charge, go pick up your food before you get to the charging station.

We have 8 free charging stations at work, regularly 5 of the 8 have cars plugged in and not charging. Give people an inch and they will take a mile. I'm pushing very hard to implement idle fees at work. It is only respectful and you never know if others will show up that need to charge.

 

[jk123]

And my point is that 30 minutes is not nearly long enough to do a reasonable trip leg, the ostensible purpose of Supercharger Stations.
.

Said nicely and with respect, but this is a completely different topic than the topic on hand.