Supercharger is NOT your personal parking spot

[dflye]

Did you have a pleasant chat with them? My guess is they were having trouble backing up into the spot.

Didn't get the opportunity to chat; son and I took bikes off the roof rack and pedaled around the area while wife hung out at the car. The other S showed up at some point during that time and we left before they returned from the mall. Was guessing it was a backing up issue; my wife got a huge laugh out of watching the numerous S owners trying to back into the angled parking spots in front of the Capitol building at an event back in February. I certainly wouldn't pass on an auto-parking-assist option! :biggrin:

 

[liuping]

While I agree with you that signage would make it clearer, I think most of us view it as common sense and realize that lots of owners probably want access the the Super Charger, just as we would if we were traveling. Just have to think about the Golden Rule on this one!

I agree most of us, myself included, know better than to park in a charging spot. But not everyone thinks the same way. Leaving it up to each person to figure out what the charging etiquette is is going to leave some people not following what we think is obvious. For example. I leave a contact number on my dashboard, and monitor the charge if I leave the car to get something to eat. I think this is the obvious and courteous thing to do, but many people do not do this.

It would be easy enough to have a simple sign on the supercharges with suggestions, like "Please set a timer or monitor your charge with your phone app if you walk away while charging" or "Please don't leave you car parked in a stall after it's done charging, as others may need to charge", etc.

It would also be easy enough to mention supercharger etiquette during the delivery presentation. It would take less than two minute to explain and many people have never had an EV or dealt with charging, so they just have not thought about it at all.

 

[bonnie]

Right, because as thinking, considerate adult humans we couldn't possibly put two and two together and realize that somebody else with a Model S might be driving through and need to charge, and it would be kind and thoughtful of us not to block their access to the Supercharger, using it as our own personal parking spot. Instead it's Tesla's fault. Doesn't anyone ever get tired of blaming others for their own self-centered, selfish, inconsiderate, BS? I plan on cutting someone off on my way to work today when getting on my exit ramp and I'm going to blame the county for it for not making the exit ramp a 1/2 mile longer.

The fact of the matter is that Tesla could put a big, flashing, neon sign at all Superchargers stating the spots are for charging only and limited to 20 minutes and all sorts of people would continue to use them as parking spots - and you know it. Put the blame where it belongs.

^^This.

When I see somebody on the roads doing something especially crazy-making, I just grumble and think to myself, "There goes the Center of the Universe."

I mean, what are the chances? :biggrin:

Would any gas station post a reserved parking spot sign right in front of the gas pump?

I didn't have to go to any special class to realize that it was inappropriate to park my car in a spot where someone else could charge, if I wasn't charging. This is not that hard. Or it shouldn't be.

But given that a large number of you seem to think that it IS difficult, there probably should be a sign explaining the obvious. (And then those signs can be used as examples of silly signs, just like the car sun shades that have notifications to 'remove before driving' and hair dryers that advise 'do not use in bath tub', etc. )

 

[purplewalt]

I agree most of us, myself included, know better than to park in a charging spot. But not everyone thinks the same way. Leaving it up to each person to figure out what the charging etiquette is is going to leave some people not following what we think is obvious. For example. I leave a contact number on my dashboard, and monitor the charge if I leave the car to get something to eat. I think this is the obvious and courteous thing to do, but many people do not do this.

It would be easy enough to have a simple sign on the supercharges with suggestions, like "Please set a timer or monitor your charge with your phone app if you walk away while charging" or "Please don't leave you car parked in a stall after it's done charging, as others may need to charge", etc.

It would also be easy enough to mention supercharger etiquette during the delivery presentation. It would take less than two minute to explain and many people have never had an EV or dealt with charging, so they just have not thought about it at all.

Agreed.
While in Oregon, I encountered a lady in a Model S who had never supercharged.
She had her car for maybe three weeks, and she did not know anything about how to align/back in to a supercharger bay or even plug it in.
I did help her getting the car in position, and now in hind-sight, I probably could have been a bit more instructive in alerting her to the soft-skill set of being a considerate EV owner:
** park,
** charge, using what you need,
** when you are finished charging, please move your car so others might have access so they might charge.

So what do you think the chances are that someone from Tesla (when she picked up her car) had also given her a bit of instructive protocol for use of Superchargers wrt charging, then move your car to another parking space so others might have access.

Believe it or not, everyone who has a Model S does not read this Forum.
So they may be uninformed on how to continue to generate good will for the next guy/gal who needs a charge.


While this situation may be unique to a shopping mall in Bethesda, what do you think the chances are of someone over-staying their charging and parking at a restaurant or an airport, such as Savannah or JFK?
I personally have experienced it in Colorado and Las Vegas with cars parked in, fully charged and no hint or clue to where the owners are.

 

[liuping]

I didn't have to go to any special class to realize that it was inappropriate to park my car in a spot where someone else could charge, if I wasn't charging. This is not that hard. Or it shouldn't be.

But given that a large number of you seem to think that it IS difficult, there probably should be a sign explaining the obvious. (And then those signs can be used as examples of silly signs, just like the car sun shades that have notifications to 'remove before driving' and hair dryers that advise 'do not use in bath tub', etc. )

Most people get it already, but it only take one to mess up your whole day.

More people would get it if the spot was labelled properly for 'changing' and not 'parking'.

Even more would get it if there were suggestions for reducing the the wait time for everyone.

Properly labeling the spot is not really the same as labeling obvious things. It's like calling a hair drier "Dry n'Shower". Then getting confusion when some people use them in the shower. I would think it's obvious not to use ANY electrical device in the shower, but not everyone learned that when growing up (hence the GFI outlets required in all bathrooms) and it is named "Dry n'Shower".

 

[mesalum]

This thread is amusing. There are some calling for proper "signage" to get people to do the right thing. As if some words on a sign hanging on a wall will suddenly make that light bulb go off in someones head. Some people are just not wired to care about anybody but themselves. We have a lot of them here in California. But most of you get it, it's that common sense and respect for others kicking in.

Once I take delivery of my car (goes into production next week) I will only occupy a SC slot long enough to charge and will move to a non-SC parking space.

 

[ecarfan]

This issue has been discussed multiple times in the past year. One point I recall being made by some is that at some Supercharger sites, Tesla's legal contract with the site owner mandates that the SC spaces be labeled for Tesla EV "parking" and not "charging". Why that is, I can't say.

 

[Peter_M]

The thing is, we're not trying to determine "blame". It's pretty clear that people parking in charging spaces when not charging are at fault. What we're trying to do is change behaviours.

There are lots of people who don't know the "rules" - even a few Tesla owners, apparently, but especially the vast majority of drivers who have never even thought about electric cars. And then there are people who know the rules and ignore them. I'd suggest that most of the offenders are the "un-knowing" type, so absolutely, putting up a No Parking sign will make a difference for those people. And if we can change behaviours enough that the only offenders are the "I know the rules and I don't care" type, and if the signs are clear enough that they can't claim to not know the rules, then it's time for enforcement (ticketing/towing).

But even if there is rarely any enforcement, I think the signs would nearly eliminate the problem by simply letting people know what's permitted. As much as we are annoyed by the jerks of the world, most people are reasonable, and we only need to educate most people to reduce this problem to a minor issue.

 

[dflye]

If they tied the activation of the charger to confirming an alert panel on the main display, that would hopefully reduce the "I didn't know!" factor. Especially if it prompted to enter a contact number/email in case Tesla needs to reach the owner (or just went with the already existing contact info associated with the VIN)

 

[ThosEM]

That QR code thing is absolutely useless if the person trying to reach you doesn't have an iPhone. Just leave a phone number. Everyone can use that.

QR codes are brand agnostic and readable by most any phone and they help to make the number more legible. I agree that the QR sheet should also have the phone # to which it points in large print. But better yet would be software that notifies the owner very persistently when charging is complete at a public supercharger (as contrasted with a private home charger). But as I suggested, Tesla should be working on software for notifying and queuing people at superchargers, which implies some level of "take a number" communication among them. Especially at high use SCs, that is going to be increasingly necessary. I think that better signage, though desirable, is unlikely to solve the problem...

 

[pgiralt]

This song keeps popping into my head as I read this thread. Maybe we can get Tesla to write a new charging song for Tesla

 

[AnOutsider]

I agree most of us, myself included, know better than to park in a charging spot. But not everyone thinks the same way. Leaving it up to each person to figure out what the charging etiquette is is going to leave some people not following what we think is obvious. For example. I leave a contact number on my dashboard, and monitor the charge if I leave the car to get something to eat. I think this is the obvious and courteous thing to do, but many people do not do this.

It would be easy enough to have a simple sign on the supercharges with suggestions, like "Please set a timer or monitor your charge with your phone app if you walk away while charging" or "Please don't leave you car parked in a stall after it's done charging, as others may need to charge", etc.

It would also be easy enough to mention supercharger etiquette during the delivery presentation. It would take less than two minute to explain and many people have never had an EV or dealt with charging, so they just have not thought about it at all.

Agreed with this. We've already seen one poor poster admit that this may not have occurred to them. It occurs to us because we're heavily posting on a forum not just about EVs but a specific type of EV which has certain perks.

I've been to Bethesda, and I've seen the way the SC looks. It doesn't look like your typical supercharger, and the spots do look like they're fancy reserved-for-sexy-teslas-only parking spots. In that location, I can see it being an honest mistake. Better signing there is a small effort and doesn't need to be ridiculed.

 

[Robert.Boston]

There's a difference between assigning blame and working to find a remedy. In my mind the question is very simple: could Tesla do something that would reduce the problem of Tesla owners leaving their cars parked in SC slots longer than needed to charge? Sure; they could install better signage, and they could include 15 seconds of discussion during delivery. While good behavior in this regard should be common sense, it's my experience that common sense isn't that common. Moreover, most people have no touchstone about appropriate behavior around charging. There are no Dear Abby or Miss Manners columns about charging etiquette, and neither parents nor drivers ed teachers provided any pointers. It's worth a small investment by Tesla to help build a culture around SC use before an endemic problem arises.

 

[liuping]

This thread is amusing. There are some calling for proper "signage" to get people to do the right thing. As if some words on a sign hanging on a wall will suddenly make that light bulb go off in someones head. Some people are just not wired to care about anybody but themselves. We have a lot of them here in California. But most of you get it, it's that common sense and respect for others kicking in.

Once I take delivery of my car (goes into production next week) I will only occupy a SC slot long enough to charge and will move to a non-SC parking space.

I find many people do the right thing when they know what the right thing is.

Not telling them (or actually telling them the wrong thing, like "this is a parking space") and they calling them stupid or rude for not figuring out what we feel is obvious is counter productive.

If proper signage lets just one person realize it not just a parking space for Tesla Owners, then someone will get a change when they would not have before.

If Tesla is negotiating contracts that don't let them properly mark spot as "charging only", then part of the blame is on Tesla. In those cases, they should at least put something on the supercharger requesting people be mindful of other who need a charge.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a difference between assigning blame and working to find a remedy. In my mind the question is very simple: could Tesla do something that would reduce the problem of Tesla owners leaving their cars parked in SC slots longer than needed to charge? Sure; they could install better signage, and they could include 15 seconds of discussion during delivery. While good behavior in this regard should be common sense, it's my experience that common sense isn't that common. Moreover, most people have no touchstone about appropriate behavior around charging. There are no Dear Abby or Miss Manners columns about charging etiquette, and neither parents nor drivers ed teachers provided any pointers. It's worth a small investment by Tesla to help build a culture around SC use before an endemic problem arises.

+1

This is exactly how I feel, but much more eloquently stated.

 

[RichardL]

There are no Dear Abby or Miss Manners columns about charging etiquette, ...

'Dear Bonnie' perhaps :biggrin:

Even a simple 'Please be considerate of others while charging...' on the Charging window that opens when you plug in, might help a little

 

[NigelM]

Just FTR, there's lots of suggestions in this thread about which signs Tesla should use...obviously they have evolved over time but this is the latest iteration:

P.S. OK not superchargers but a bank of HPWC's at our local mall where the new store is, principle remains the same.

 

[Krugerrand]

It occurs to us because we're heavily posting on a forum not just about EVs but a specific type of EV which has certain perks.

No, it occurs to me because my parents informed me when I was young that the world does not revolve around me. Therefore I don't park in spots that are marked reserved, spots marked for the handicapped or pregnant, or spots that obviously have some 'other' purpose even if I'm in a hurry and then next available spot is 1/2 a mile away. I also wouldn't stay parked in a fueling spot once I was done fueling - yes, I will actually move my vehicle from beside the gas pump before entering the store to browse their selection of day old pastries, so as not to unduly inconvenience someone else.

 

[liuping]

No, it occurs to me because my parents informed me when I was young that the world does not revolve around me. Therefore I don't park in spots that are marked reserved, spots marked for the handicapped or pregnant, or spots that obviously have some 'other' purpose even if I'm in a hurry and then next available spot is 1/2 a mile away. I also wouldn't stay parked in a fueling spot once I was done fueling - yes, I will actually move my vehicle from beside the gas pump before entering the store to browse their selection of day old pastries, so as not to unduly inconvenience someone else.

Even if the spot is marked reserved for you specifically? If you were handicapped you would not park in a handicapped space?

That is quite simply the case here. It says "Tesla EV Parking". The owner drives a Tesla EV. It is not "obvious" to some people that they should not park there.

Moving away from the gas pump to go in the store is quite different. It is not label "Park Here".

 

[AnOutsider]

Even if the spot is marked reserved for you specifically? If you were handicapped you would not park in a handicapped space?

That is quite simply the case here. It says "Tesla EV Parking". The owner drives a Tesla EV. It is not "obvious" to some people that they should not park there.

Moving away from the gas pump to go in the store is quite different. It is not label "Park Here".

Exactly. The assumption keeps being that folks are doing things in a rude, self-centered manner, and not from pure ignorance. Even the sign Nigel posted COULD be interpreted as "only Teslas can use this equipment" not "only teslas can park here".

The silly "defense" of Tesla when no one is REALLY attacking them and dismissing everyone as rude and self-centered isn't at all productive.

 

[breser]

I'm pretty sure no local or state laws call for an red sign with the Tesla logo on it to reserve a parking space.

I know you say this as a joke but Washington State has a law restrict EV charging spots. You're absolutely right that Tesla's signage doesn't comply with the law and so it has no effect on parking there. Strangely Tesla has bothered to paint the green lines as the law requires, without bothering to post the signage as the law requires.

So who would enforce this?

Get the states to pass laws like Washington State did. When people start getting $124 parking tickets word will get around and most people will stop. Obviously some won't because people still park in handicap spots. But it helps.

I didn't have to go to any special class to realize that it was inappropriate to park my car in a spot where someone else could charge, if I wasn't charging. This is not that hard. Or it shouldn't be.

Not to pick on you bonnie but you're certainly an EV advocate. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have a spouse or partner that bought the car and they know next to nothing about charging it. They may not even realize how limited those charging spots are.

QR codes are brand agnostic and readable by most any phone and they help to make the number more legible. I agree that the QR sheet should also have the phone # to which it points in large print. But better yet would be software that notifies the owner very persistently when charging is complete at a public supercharger (as contrasted with a private home charger).

Yes QR codes can be generic to any smartphone. But even a QR code assumes someone has a smart phone. There are owners on here that have said they don't have smart phones. But I was assuming they were talking about using the SuperchargerQR app that seems to be popular with people. That provides a code that only that app can read and the app is only available for the iPhone.

The iPhone Tesla app as I understand it will notify you when you're full at a supercharger and you can't turn off that notification. The Android app still doesn't have any notifications yet.

This issue has been discussed multiple times in the past year. One point I recall being made by some is that at some Supercharger sites, Tesla's legal contract with the site owner mandates that the SC spaces be labeled for Tesla EV "parking" and not "charging". Why that is, I can't say.

Usually because zoning rules probably require a certain number of parking spots. By not limiting the supercharger spots to charging they can still be counted as parking spots. This is probably the reason you see a lot of the 30 minute general parking spots at superchargers. I know from what I've read here that some supercharger locations have had to be scrapped because the local officials wouldn't go for this interpretation.

Limiting them to charging only probably means they limit their choices of locations by a lot more. Specifically, to locations that already have several more spots than are required. It would also limit any possible future expansion. Which might slow down supercharger build outs.

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention that I meant to. I happen to know that at least one member of this forum has told me they park in EV spots and hook the cord up without charging so that nobody knows they are charging. They were talking about non-Supercharger spots like ChargePoint like we have at the mall nearby. I cringed when they told me that. But they clearly know better if they're hooking the cable up just to look like they're charging. So no amount of signage or education is going to stop people from doing this. But I can promise you one thing that would put a quick stop to this. Start putting the charging spots at the back of the lot as far away from where people want to park as possible.