Certainly there’s a learning curve, but (as noted but probably lost upthread) my experience over thanksgiving was opposite. So...don’t assume that people simply don’t know.
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Supercharger - Kettleman City, CA (LIVE 15 Nov 2017, 24 V2 + 16 V3 stalls, lounge)
- Thread starter smilepak
- Start date
Certainly there’s a learning curve, but (as noted but probably lost upthread) my experience over thanksgiving was opposite. So...don’t assume that people simply don’t know.
Doug Martoccia
Member
Drove through there about lunchtime on Friday the 20th. The 250kW chargers were mostly free. I didn't count, but it seemed to be less than a dozen cars charging.
This may already be mentioned in this mammoth thread, but when visiting this SC on a busy travel day, do not drive across the street to the fast food zone. It is a very poorly designed mess of a cul-de-sac and it will trap you. If you must go to that side of the road, walk over.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Alex Venz
@PTPetra
The Tesla Supercharger at Kettleman City is packed & has a 1-3 car wait, but there are employees directing people & the wait time isn't more than ~5 minutes. Was told that if the wait gets longer, they'll start directing people to the mobile megapack on the other side of 41
Alex Venz on Twitter
Alex Venz
@PTPetra
The Tesla Supercharger at Kettleman City is packed & has a 1-3 car wait, but there are employees directing people & the wait time isn't more than ~5 minutes. Was told that if the wait gets longer, they'll start directing people to the mobile megapack on the other side of 41
Alex Venz on Twitter
We stopped here at 2:30pm. 4 cars ahead of us, but the line moved quickly and we only waited about 5 minutes. The attendants stopped a fellow owner from coming in through the exit and snagging a spot .
I saw the semi cab parked in the supercharger site, but didn't see the trailer. Where did they have it set up?
AMPd
Well-Known Member
According to that twitter feed the mobile chargers were set up at bravo farms across hwy 41
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
KC still busy today, but no line. We came through about 1pm and the site was consistently ~75% full. Vending machines need a re-stock. 
Plugged my dinosaur S 75 into a v3 station just to see what would happen. Pulled 120kw for a few minutes, which is the fastest I've ever seen, but that's it.
Plugged my dinosaur S 75 into a v3 station just to see what would happen. Pulled 120kw for a few minutes, which is the fastest I've ever seen, but that's it.
KC still busy today, but no line. We came through about 1pm and the site was consistently ~75% full. Vending machines need a re-stock.
Plugged my dinosaur S 75 into a v3 station just to see what would happen. Pulled 120kw for a few minutes, which is the fastest I've ever seen, but that's it.
Don’t take this the wrong way and I’m not commenting it that easy but sadly, were Tesla to try and organize supercharger usage to optimize for peak travel this scenario wouldn’t/shouldn’t happen. Any car that can’t pull peak power from a V3 shouldn’t charge at one.if there are others that can waiting. (Which in this situation there weren’t most likel).
Ultimately, at a peak usage/load time tesla should try and move M3 or other cars that can pull peak from a V3, and shift other cars to V2 SC’s. I could see Tesla doing something like a 50% discount on charging for those cars that wait maybe 3-5 minutes longer, but optimize the usage overall of the SC’s and cars. The ultimate goal during a peak usage situation (and this was not) would be to get the most cars through to whatever SOC they require as quickly as possible.
Eno Deb
Active Member
If I had waited in line for an hour in an older Model S, and a V3 charger opened up and some other car from behind me jumped the line I'd be pretty p*ssed.
The older cars can still take advantage of the higher speeds compared to shared V2 stalls ...There would be no “jumping ahead”.. in the scenario I briefly described above there would be an ORGANIZED and COMPENSATED for prioritization of cars, capabilities and needs. It’s not for everyone, and one could certainly not participate in that case.If I had waited in line for an hour in an older Model S, and a V3 charger opened up and some other car from behind me jumped the line I'd be pretty p*ssed.
Note that this situation came up because Kettleman City (which BTW is the subject of this thread
) has a mix of charger types. That's more the exception than the norm.Bruce.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree with your assertion from an academic standpoint, but I think in practice the effect on station throughput would be negligible and frankly not worth the headache nor ill will Tesla would likely endure for playing favorites and musical chairs with the line.
With the aggressive taper most cars see, the majority of cars connected to v3 stations at any given moment are drawing far less than maximum power (in fact the cabinets that feed v3 chargers appear to be sized to acknowledge that reality and can’t actually provide 250kw to all four pedestals at once). Asking people to stay with their cars and move around to slower stations after the taper is not really realistic nor the type of experience I think Tesla wants to be promoting (of course neither is a 40 car line, so preemptive “touché” on this point).
The other problem you run into with this novel mix of v2 vs. v3 stations (which I imagine is temporary) is the shared nature of the v2 stalls and the roll of the dice you get with those. As I said, the site was ~3/4 full, to the point where I probably could have hunted around and maybe found a free v2 pair where I would receive priority, but with ~4/16 v3 stalls free as well, that was an easy choice to guarantee I’d get as much power as I needed as quickly as possible (I rolled in with 10% SoC and needed 60 to get home). If the site had a line and the attendant gave away “my” v3 spot to a Model 3, without any consideration of their SoC, and then directed me to a paired v2 stall where the other car was running full tilt and I was stuck at ~30kw for 45 minutes, I’d probably be pissed, greater good or not.
Like I said, hopefully this is a temporary phenomenon and the rest of the KC chargers get upgraded after the new year.
One final thought, the monetary compensation you suggest is not a powerful incentive as most of us slow charging dinosaurs already have free supercharging, so 50% off is unlikely to move me. Though I would probably be convinced by a free nitro cold brew from one of the lovely ladies inside.
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Pluto
is a Planet
The easy short term solution (assuming Tesla will upgrade the entire station) is to create signs for V2 and V3 charging station lines with short explanations (ie. V3 Line - Up to 250 kW for Long Range Vehicles). Then it becomes very simple for people waiting in line. Tesla can even divide the station up with cones since the parking lanes appear to be wide enough.
When a site like Kettleman is slammed and cars are lined up, there is not that much difference between V2 and V3. A SC V3 cabinet serves 4 stalls and can only pull 350kVA from the grid. It can pull additional power from other cabinets and from batteries through a separate DC bus connecting between the cabinets. However, that isn't helpful when the site is fully utilized over an extended period. A pair of V2 cabinets also serve 4 stalls and can pull 320kVA from the grid. The main difference is that you are more likely to be paired and limited at a V2 site that is partially occupied than you would if it were a V3 site.
This is my long-winded way of saying that when Kettleman is slammed, it doesn't matter that much who gets which stall, assuming they are all working up to spec.
This is my long-winded way of saying that when Kettleman is slammed, it doesn't matter that much who gets which stall, assuming they are all working up to spec.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I can’t help but think this is a recipe for an unmitigated disaster.
Hey look, that line is shorter!
Hey look, that line is moving faster!
I have a “long range” Model S that can’t pull anywhere near 250kw, what line should I be in?
What’s a long range? Is that what I have?
Based on my observations yesterday, Tesla is WELL past the early adopter phase where you can expect that basically everyone knows there’s even a difference between v2 and v3 stalls, let alone which ones their cars “should” be using. Most people are clueless about the pairing characteristics of v2, let alone WTF v3 is.
Making things more complicated than they need to be is a quick route to frustration. The line might be marginally longer (emphasis on might) if there’s only one, but everyone knows how a single line works and there isn’t much opportunity for unfairness.
Moderator note: please stay on topic, which is the Kettleman Supercharger as it currently exists. Those who wish to talk about a theoretical future where Tesla implements some sort of stall assignment system for locations which have a mix of V2 and V3 stalls are welcome to start a separate thread about that. I would suggest starting that thread in the Supercharger and Charging Infrastructure forum. There are forums on TMC for almost every conceivable topic.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for your cooperation.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This discussion couldn’t possibly be more relevant to this station as it currently exists. I appreciate your work here but the idea that this is somehow off topic is silly and unnecessarily stifling of interesting and respectful conversation on a relevant topic.
As v3's are starting to roll out in multiple SC's, I can understand the Mod's point. Essentially, every SC with a v3 current or planned would have the same discussion, since a strong case could be made that it is indeed relevant. Prolly makes more sense for TMC to have one thread to discuss a stall assignment/priority system to cover them all. Otherwise, each and every SC thread will start to go down that rabbit hole.
btw: we already discussed this very thing on this thread back in early November. (I opined not a practical idea for some of the same reasons mentioned in #1176. And 'what does 250 kw mean?')
btw: we already discussed this very thing on this thread back in early November. (I opined not a practical idea for some of the same reasons mentioned in #1176. And 'what does 250 kw mean?')
An anecdote from last week. I pulled my dinosaur 2012 S85 into a V2 stall to charge. The paired stall was empty.
The Tesla attendant got out of his car and came up to me to tell me I can charge faster if I moved over to one of the v3 stalls and he gestured at the new row which was about half occupied.
This goes to show that not only can we no longer expect the average Tesla owner to know whether their car can charge at v2 or v3 speeds, but we can’t even expect all Tesla employees to know.
I ran into a similar situation at the Bellevue showroom where a Tesla employee tried to tell me the new Model S’s can take the full 250 kw speed of v3 chargers.
The Tesla attendant got out of his car and came up to me to tell me I can charge faster if I moved over to one of the v3 stalls and he gestured at the new row which was about half occupied.
This goes to show that not only can we no longer expect the average Tesla owner to know whether their car can charge at v2 or v3 speeds, but we can’t even expect all Tesla employees to know.
I ran into a similar situation at the Bellevue showroom where a Tesla employee tried to tell me the new Model S’s can take the full 250 kw speed of v3 chargers.
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