Supercharger - Kettleman City, CA (LIVE 15 Nov 2017, 24 V2 + 16 V3 stalls, lounge)

[scaesare]

Does anyone know if we use the HPWC at Kettleman if Tesla charges for the juice in the same manner as Superchargers?

Asking for a friend. . . .

This is an interesting question. The original HPWC acts as a J1772 device. That has no ability to query the car for VIN in order to do cost accounting. So if they are old-style, I'd say no.

The new ones can talk to a model S/3/X via digital comms. They can do this to query the car for SOC, etc... to do load sharing with multiple TWC's (nee HPWC's) on the same circuit. I've not seen any confirmation they query the car for VIN, nor am I aware of any network connectivity they'd have to talk to a back-end accounting system, but in theory they could.

The new TWC's can also fall back to J1772... but that capability can be disabled (such as in the case of being installed as a destination charger), so that may not be an option for these.

I'd say that it's unlikely that you'd get charged for TWC usage....

 

[napabill]

I believe that Kettleman is a prototype, to detemine how solar works for large charging stations. The lounge is also the realization of a idea. Give Tesla owners a place to hang out while charging.

I bet Tesla is gathering tons of data from this place.

Might be some issues for Tesla to sort out, as this is a first, however it is so far above whatever any other EV producer has done that it pretty much sets the bar.

I made a special effort to go there instead of Harris ranch. A totally different experience, and perhaps the future of large superchargers. Coffee was excellent and the baristas had a great attitude which made the lounge all the better.

Now if TM would just provide corned beef hash, eggs, hash browns and toast I'd never have to stop at Harris Ranch again!

 

[ka9q]

10 minutes to the In-and-Out Burger. Good to stretch your legs after sitting for hours driving. I do not consider that a “drawback”.

I should have explained that my wife and I both have mobility issues and in addition she has dietary restrictions that ruled out all the nearest restaurants.

I have charged at Kettleman City several times now and have not noticed the power level fluctuations you describe. Perhaps when you were there the local utility was having issues. I do not believe that Tesla is trying to economize by limiting the power level to what the solar array can provide at any given moment. That would be absurd.

I hope you're right about the local utility. Also I did not get a peek into the equipment area so I do not know if they have stationary batteries for load leveling as at at least two other sites I've visited recently (San Clemente and Mammoth Lakes.)
As an engineer, I've (re)learned many times that the validity or lack thereof of a hypothesis depends on empirical evidence, not its subjective absurdity. Look up the commercial rate schedules for the utility involved and pay careful attention to the demand charges, which is how utilities recover their costs from commercial customers, as opposed to the 3-4x surcharge on wholesale prices that they charge residential customers. Calculate them for a single 120 kw load occurring only once in a month. Now consider that Tesla burned through 2 billion dollars last year, and see if you still think it absurd. Maybe it is.
The Kettleman City location may well soon become an excellent place to stop. I hope so. But my wife and I agreed that Tesla is not yet getting much of a return on its large Kettleman City investment given how well covered that part of I-5 already is with superchargers and their very low utilization.

 

[ka9q]

I looked up PG&E's tariffs. The applicable one would appear to be E-20, "SERVICE TO CUSTOMERS WITH MAXIMUM DEMANDS of 1000 KILOWATTS or MORE". Assuming Tesla takes delivery at primary voltage (they do provide their own transformers) the winter demand charge is $15.10/kW. That's $1,812/mo the very first time anybody uses a single 120 kW supercharger, and Tesla has to pay it even if the charger sits completely idle for the rest of the month.

If I were a Tesla engineer tasked with reducing costs (remember they lost $2 BILLION last year) I'd be looking very closely at ways to save on utility demand charges since they're a big (if not the biggest) cost of operating a supercharger site. Stationary batteries are one obvious method, which I assume they're using even though I didn't get a look inside the equipment enclosure. (Solar panels can offset energy charges but not so much demand charges because you'll still get hit on the first cloudy day -- or at night.)

A busy site can simply amortize its demand charges over many charging sessions but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tesla is trying to minimize its costs at a new, large and lightly used site like Kettleman City until it starts to get some steady traffic.

 

[Doug Martoccia]

Regarding charge rate, I have no complaints about Kettleman City. I was there yesterday at the tail end of the meet up and observed the fastest charging rate ever. Also, here's the latest world map!

 

[snobunny]

Does Anyone know how often Tesla change the entry code for this lounge? I’m not sure what is Tesla’s policy for using this lounge. While we were in the lounge waiting for the car to charge today, my husband saw 7 people got off from a Mercedes GL (parked at the charging space) and the driver actually had the code to enter the lounge. I’m not sure if he owns a Tesla but driving his MB today or someone shared the entry code with him. IMHO, if Tesla doesn’t change the entry code often, it could create some over crowding problems if some Tesla owners are sharing the code with their friends to use this lounge!

BTW, the coffee is pretty good, love the vending machines that accept Apple Pay, clean bathroom and fast WiFi, just wish the lounge has more food options

 

[MattMatt]

If this is the Supercharger of the future sign me up. It is a great location, with plenty of capacity, and a great lounge. Wifi, restrooms, and a barista, what more can you ask for. If you haven't seen this Supercharger you should check it out.

Matt

 

[AMPd]

Stopped by there yesterday on my way to Las Vegas. What an amazing place! The future looks promising!

Yermo SC was also great! Eddie World is great!

 

[Muzzman1]

If this is the future of Superchargers, I'm liking the future.
There was only 2-3 cars there both times we stopped.
The super friendly barista informed up they have yet to exceed 20 simultaneous cars charging that happened over the X-mas holiday. (open since 11/17)
Another more technical observation, the solar canopy is lined with "CanadianSolar" Panels! I would have expected Tesla would use their own? Right? Each one is 325w. I have NO clue how many there are. At some point I think someone flew a drone over them. Maybe we can get a total panel count from that to get an idea of how "off-grid" this station is.
Hopefully this massive type of station will become the norm, although I suspect not.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I'll be hitting that soon. 2,500 mile road trip starting Wednesday. Can't wait to see it.

 

[eye.surgeon]

Another more technical observation, the solar canopy is lined with "CanadianSolar" Panels! I would have expected Tesla would use their own? Right? Each one is 325w. I have NO clue how many there are. At some point I think someone flew a drone over them. Maybe we can get a total panel count from that to get an idea of how "off-grid" this station is.

I'd be surprised if the solar panels are enough to charge even a few cars a day. It will be nowhere remotely near off-grid.

 

[boaterva]

I'd be surprised if the solar panels are enough to charge even a few cars a day. It will be nowhere remotely near off-grid.

Maybe enough to power the other functions? Lights, coffee maker.

 

[SSonnentag]

We'll be stopping at Kettleman in a few months on a 2900 mile road trip. I didn't even know this was a special charging stop until after I had already planned to stop here for the night. Can't wait as this will be our first real road trip in the S.

 

[smilepak]

For awhile Solar City import in Solar Panels. So they do have a mixture of import and US assembled.

 

[McRat]

Since commercial power is billed primarily by peak kW draw (we are $15.89 / kW) a small solar install could pay for itself fairly quickly.
If you have 20 kW of panel / battery, it could reduce the bill by over $320 / month by reducing the monthly peak 20 kW. This has nothing to do with how many cars charge, but yes, it would also reduce kWh's used for additional savings, which are variable. The $320/m is not variable.

Assuming a pro commercial install would be $3/w or less, $60,000, 2500kWh generated average per month nationally, uniform .12/kWh, is $300 + $320 = $620 x 12 month = $7440/yr About 8 years to payback, tax credits makes it 6 years. Yes, there would be less savings some months, but offset by high PV output and higher rates in the summer.

Off-Grid is silly as far as ROI goes. You balance capital costs by income from the panels/battery. You make the most possible money per kW and kWh as possible per dollar. As you approach off-grid, the income per $ of capital declines. You need to do the math.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

For awhile Solar City import in Solar Panels. So they do have a mixture of import and US assembled.

They still do. When we spoke with them in January, they indicated that unless we chose the 325 watt panels, we would get panels from any of a half dozen different suppliers.

 

[Muzzman1]

Ok
Dirty napkin math. ( I was kind of hoping someone could chime in with a drone shot) but based on my photo roughly each canopy is 6x20 panels, I think there were 6 canopy's. 720 panels x 325W DC. 234Kwh system DC. 5.62 Average hours of sun/day. 480004.2Kw/yr/365=1315 Kw/day.
So maybe charge 20 cars a day assuming each car takes about 65kwh

 

[Muzzman1]

Correction, I found the drone shot. Looks like 764 Panels
Supercharger - Kettleman City (LIVE 11-15-2017, 40 stalls)
So the final # is about 1395kwh/day on average.

 

[DOCAL]

Correction, I found the drone shot. Looks like 764 Panels
Supercharger - Kettleman City (LIVE 11-15-2017, 40 stalls)
So the final # is about 1395kwh/day on average.

Taken from a small plane (Cessna 182), from a little over 1000 ft up.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

(Moderator note: this post started a separate thread about this Supercharger location. It and the responses to it were merged with the longstanding existing thread of 600+ posts).
View attachment 265912 Hi,
In case you are in California and haven’t been yet, the supercharger station at Kettleman City is very nice. This the halfway point on the 5 between LA and SF. There is an espresso bar that is open until 8, WiFi, space to relax indoors and vending machines for late hours. When you arrive you get an entry code that lets you come inside. They say it used to be a Burger King but it’s very nice. Check it out if you happen to be coming by.

I can see me spending some money there, even though I don't like spending money. It's for a good cause, right?