I'm sure tesla must have discussed putting this in the obvious location of the north bend mall, just like they should have done that in burlington. Those malls must not want more business, or they think the parking spaces are more important? It looks like an obviously bad decision.
Supercharger - North Bend, WA
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The mall in North Bend is an Electrify America site (see OP of this thread where I mistakenly thought it was supercharger construction). It’s possible that EA beat Tesla to the punch and the mall didn’t want to allocate more parking spaces for EV charging.
andrewFW
Member
I think this spot is preferable. The EA stalls at the outlets get iced due to their location. These stalls are just far enough away from businesses that it's not a desirable spot unless you're charging.
My guess is also that for something like EA, they try to get the mall to sign a contract that they won't let another EV system add themselves as destination charging, to protect their investment.
ralph142
Member
I had a long email discussion with the local Whole Foods and evgo folks about their charger install ( 2 stalls right in front of the store, even closer than the handicapped parking) and they said somewhere in the long chain of back and forth that their agreement was exclusive, no other chargers would be permitted in that development including destination chargers associated with other businesses, and only ccs and chademo connectors would be installed, no j1772, ever. ( thanks amazon) So I suspect you’re right.
WOW. I'm surprised level 2 chargers couldn't be installed by businesses. This is certainly not the direction things should be heading. Wonder if we need to push for WA to pass a law saying exclusive agreements are not allowed... we have plenty of places where one gas station is across the street from another, I don't know of any exclusive zone around those...
That's very odd that only quick charge will be included, I wonder why no J1772.... maybe EVGO doesn't want people going for the cheaper option as a little top off while shopping vs paying the higher premium for the fast charge even when they only need to convenience charge...
Edit: My goodness they're expensive! 1 hour with EA would be $16 at those North Bend chargers! I totally would plug in to a level 2, even a pay one, if I just needed ~10kWh or something while I was shopping for an hour... but that would be a few bucks. If I only got 10kWh from the EA charger and had to pay $16 that would be INSANE.
Edit edit: Wait, there's some misinformation posted. It looks like this outlet mall actually does have two different chargers. There are a handful of EVGO chargers (including two level 2 [7.2kW] FREE chargers) and there is an EA location here with fast chargers only. So it may not be that there is an exclusive agreement, it might be that the mall didn't want to give up more spaces to Tesla or Tesla didn't want to be near EA/EVGO... though I think that would be fantastic advertising to see a Tesla roll in, charge, and leave before your Bolt or Kona EV was done charging at it's 50 to 80 kW speed
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I think i would agree with fast charge only in this instance, right in front of a market. reason being, people are only going to be there for 20-30 minutes at a time, so putting slow chargers in doesn't make sense. if you give people the option to leave their cars for 2 hours at a time to get anything from a level 2 charger, you're going to tie those parking spaces up 4 times longer than needed.
Businesses can install level 2 chargers, but it would be at their expense. Few thousand for the charging heads, probably $50k plus to have lines run, why not let EVGO of EA foot the bill? it's all about incentive
https://www.premiumoutlets.com/outlet/north-bend/stores
There's a large number of stores there and I could easily see someone that likes shopping spending an hour or more there, at level 2 speed that would be at least 7kWh and maybe more like 10 to 15 kWh in an "average mall stop." That adds up... I don't expect free, but on the cost on those slow chargers tend to be way more in the realm of the real world than the fast chargers. $1.50 to $3 is still expensive per kWh but if you only spent that amount while shopping for an hour or two and gained 35 to 50 miles the convenience might make it worth a "no duh I'll plug in" kind of thing. The fast chargers billed by the minute, or with a high session fee, encourage EV drivers to wait till they're as low charge as possible before plugging in, because you want the fastest charge rate. The whole beautiful thing about EV's is that you can (should be able to) charge everywhere and always have a full battery. How many times have we said to gas owners "it's like waking up every day having a full tank of gas!", well I look at level 2 chargers like that. Shop for 2 hours and come out to a "full tank of gas", even if I only used 15% to get to the store.
i agree for the mall, i was talking more about the whole foods type situation. i know the EA station near me has 1 J1772 plug and 3 fast charge stations, it's in the parking lot of a target. in the same shopping complex (the Landing in renton) there are two EVGO fast chargers across the parking isle from 4 Blink level 2's. i imagine every negotiation is different, and while not every location is going to be ideal for everyone, with adapters we have options. also, with EVGO announcing the addition of a Tesla connector to all their USA fast charge stations, the infrastructure is getting better.
I forgot about that! There's a very good chance talks of this were already well underway and Tesla decided to switch the North Bend location away from this since these EVGO chargers will eventually get Tesla connectors. It makes a lot more sense having a secondary physical location rather than two options in the same parking lot or localized area. No only for convenience but for redundancy; if power goes out at the outlet mall there's a good chance it'll still be on in the truck stop area down the way where the superchargers are located.
I forget, did they mention if the EVGO locations will be integrated into the Tesla nav (hopefully can be turned off for routing) and if billing would be handled via the Tesla plug and play or via EVGO's app?
DustWindDude
Member
Just to throw another thought into the mix regarding the decision to put the Supercharger where they did. The North Bend "trucktown" is likely going to be a key spot for an East-West Megacharger in the future. It's already a full-service truckstop (the ONLY such facility on I-90 west of the Cascades). I can think of several advantages to having a Supercharger and a Megacharger co-located (or at least closely located to each other), and especially at this location.
I'm approaching 100k miles on my March 2018 Model S. Maybe what you heard is true for Raven Model Ses but it definitely isn't true for pre-Raven. And honestly, the jury is still out on the Ravens. We'll have to re-visit once someone has done hundreds of supercharges in one of them. There is a guy in the Superchargers Visited contest who recently got a Raven Model S so it shouldn't take long
i doubt they will integrate with the cars charging map, and EVGO uses a swipe card system, so you'll have to just use that.
ralph142
Member
I tend to agree given that spot, the evgo reps argument was exactly that, people would plug in to a level 2 and come back 8 hours later. The notion of enforcing a 2 hr limit, as an exAmple, was a non starter. But to not allow any other chargers in the development is just stupid. I drive by that location 2x a day typically, and rarely see it used
This is a V3 charger so the majority of the people are likely only going to spend 15-20min here before either heading home or onwards to the next supercharger. That doesn't even give people enough time to eat let alone going shopping.
Even the V2 chargers with a Model 3 aren't giving people enough time to eat unless they grab something to go.
Over time I think people are going to prefer clean bathroom access, and some kind of quick Cafe style food like what they have in Cle Elum over Superchargers at Outlet malls.
In fact I think the Cle Elum cafe has a great business model. Although I wish it was in Centralia, and not Cle Elum.
Unless someone has an older Model S or if they're charging above 90% then I don't see much reason for wanting to be closer to an Outlet mall.
Outlet malls also get really busy around the holidays, and its hard to get into them and out. Centralia is a perfect example of it, and it's not even that good of an outlet mall.
I do have another reason for not wanting another outlet mall supercharger. I've been a Tesla owner for 5 years, and I'm really bored of Outlet Malls. They are all the same.
This specific location would have been a fairly quick and safe walking distance of like three or four fast food options. Not always the best or unique places for a stop, but the ability get a sub, coffee, burger, or something else would be nice compared to the more isolated truck stop.
I charged here today. Arrived with < 30% charge, max rate I got was 110kW. M3 LR.
I was the only one there for a little while, then within 15-20m, 7 of the 8 stations were full.
Related: Popeye's is currently OUT of chicken sandwiches!
I was the only one there for a little while, then within 15-20m, 7 of the 8 stations were full.
Related: Popeye's is currently OUT of chicken sandwiches!
goneskiian
Active Member
Uh oh! That's not good! (The chicken shortage that is.)I charged here today. Arrived with < 30% charge, max rate I got was 110kW. M3 LR.
I was the only one there for a little while, then within 15-20m, 7 of the 8 stations were full.
Related: Popeye's is currently OUT of chicken sandwiches!
marksvend
Member
This location is fantastic for fast access from the freeway. Take the exit and 15 seconds later you are plugged in. Same for getting back to the on-ramp.
I just completed a trip from SLC with my S 90D, and this V3 ramps up to 130kW+ in a few seconds. It doesn’t pause at 54kW then gradually ramp up for several minutes like all the V2 chargers do.
I topped up from 20% to 31% in 3 minutes and got right back on the road. That’s an average power of 138kW.
I just completed a trip from SLC with my S 90D, and this V3 ramps up to 130kW+ in a few seconds. It doesn’t pause at 54kW then gradually ramp up for several minutes like all the V2 chargers do.
I topped up from 20% to 31% in 3 minutes and got right back on the road. That’s an average power of 138kW.
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