Supercharger - North Bend, WA

[acarney]

Well, we are in agreement here. This is way off topic, but did they not tell you that supercharging would be slower with the SR3 than the LR3? Of course when I bought my S90D, they definitely didn't tell me that supercharging would be slower than people who were driving older S85s, so I'm guessing they didn't mention anything to you either.

They never specifically mentioned supercharging speed and Tesla’s site doesn’t have the SR+ in their charging simulator/calculator (just the LR Model 3), but I do recall when the car was announced they mentioned a different charging rate between the two... though this is clearly software limited, which if it’s to protect the battery from people who frequently cycle it every couple days and supercharger weekly then that’s frustrating. Just like not charging to 100% daily I wish we had the option to override the software limit infrequent and charge as fast as the cells will allow.

But, because of the slower charging limit and smaller battery I’m VERY happy about additional supercharging locations. I think North Bend is actually really useful for SR+ owners. This location is approximately 30 miles from downtown Seattle. It’ll allow SR+ owners going eastbound to charge at Cle Elum or Ellensberg less (so less time spent in the slower taper) and then quickly stop again about an hour later to again charge for just ten minutes or so before heading into downtown. Rather then spending a shorter time at Cle Elum and hitting downtown at a very low SOC or spending a long time in Cle Elum to get to 80%+ SOC to hit downtown with decent range left, North Bend will be an option.

If we get a Yakima supercharger then people heading back to the Tri City area will have the same ability. Because of the smaller packs and slower charge speed I think it makes sense to make two 10 minute stops rather then one 25-35 minute stop to try and max the battery.

 

[Araman0]

Sorry to continue the off-topic nature of this thread, but you all know more about this than anyone else I’ve seen. Do the caps on the S’s and X’s seem to only impact people with free supercharging? If so this could be a money saving effort of Tesla.

 

[floatplane]

So Teslas can use Electrify America chargers, but only if we have the Chademo adapter? I’ve not followed Electrify much, so wasn’t sure what charging standard they were using...

From what I have noticed on PlugShare, a typical EA site has 2 CCS (VAG compatible) 1 Chademo and 1 J1772 (level 2).

That means a Tesla can charge at an EA site at 7kW with the provided J1772 adapter or at max 50kW with $500 Chademo adapter.

 

[floatplane]

Can I clarify one thing I think is not correct in several posts. The reason the Model 3 SR+ charges slower than LR is because it has fewer battery packs (5). It isn’t limited by software but hardware. So an LR with 6 packs can take more DC current at the same voltage for same state of charge. The weight difference is about 170lbs, (comparing RWD models) so I think there is something else different, like an 11kW AC charger vs 7kW in SR/SR+. Hence max 32A 240V AC charging in SR+ vs 48A in LR.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

......I think North Bend is actually really useful for SR+ owners. This location is approximately 30 miles from downtown Seattle. It’ll allow SR+ owners going eastbound to charge at Cle Elum or Ellensberg less (so less time spent in the slower taper) and then quickly stop again about an hour later to again charge for just ten minutes or so before heading into downtown.....

This will definitely be more advantageous to Westbound travelers and/or those staying in the Seattle area without overnight charging. It’s always best to top up before entering a large metropolitan area if no other options are available. People who live in the area will probably just charge at home then skip this SC heading eastbound, stopping at the farthest SC on route. As you said, this allows for faster charging since you arrive at a lower SOC. Some folks wanted another SC in Moses Lake to supplement Ellensburg (but that only works for Seattle-Spokane travel).

 

[acarney]

Can I clarify one thing I think is not correct in several posts. The reason the Model 3 SR+ charges slower than LR is because it has fewer battery packs (5). It isn’t limited by software but hardware. So an LR with 6 packs can take more DC current at the same voltage for same state of charge. The weight difference is about 170lbs, (comparing RWD models) so I think there is something else different, like an 11kW AC charger vs 7kW in SR/SR+. Hence max 32A 240V AC charging in SR+ vs 48A in LR.

I don’t think that makes sense. Supposedly the LR and SR+ both have 4 modules. LR has 4,416 cells and the SR+ has 2,976 cells. Base on those numbers and a 50kWh / 75 kWh the cells have roughly the same capacity. Assuming the cells charge at the same rate, the LR is delivering ~56 watts to each cell... the SR+ should be able to do 168kW peak. Again, if they could increase to max V2 supercharger rate (140 to 150kW) that would be awesome, and cut the 10-50% SOC gain from about 12 minutes down to 8 minutes.

Even if you do the math based on the AC charge rate difference the SR+ should be able to do ~159kW at the superchargers. So for it to be almost rock steady at 100kW from 10% out to almost 50% SOC, it seems likely that it’s software limited.

 

[ValleyGeek]

I've visited about 20 different supercharger stations between WA, OR, ID, and MT over the past couple years and judging by the amenities at those other ones, I think the North Bend Outlet Mall will be an example of one of the nicer locations as far as things to do and access to food. There is a busy street separating the mall from the bulk of the food (and the two Starbucks) but it has a traffic light at each end of the mall with crosswalks so getting to the other side should be reasonably safe and quick. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to walk from any point in the mall (not knowing where the chargers will be but I assume somewhere near the other 8ish non Tesla chargers already there) to the Safeway, which is the furthest nearby business.

 

[22yearold]

Did you ask them how many Superchargers there will be?

No. Based on the OP looks like 13. You can call them and ask

 

[im.thatoneguy]

North Bend will be a nice stop gap until we get in some Olympia/Auburn chargers. Or a good insurance policy if you skip Ellensburg and Cle Elum ends up unavailable.

One challenging trip right now is: Leavenworth/Ellensburg > Olympia > Seattle. I was forced to do that one a couple weeks ago and had to stop in Issaquah instead of going direct to Olympia from North Bend because the Cle Elum chargers were down.

Leavenworth > Olympia > Seattle in a 90% charged LR3 is just barely possible at 70+mph if Cle Elum is unavailable.

 

[acarney]

North Bend will be a nice stop gap until we get in some Olympia/Auburn chargers. Or a good insurance policy if you skip Ellensburg and Cle Elum ends up unavailable.

One challenging trip right now is: Leavenworth/Ellensburg > Olympia > Seattle. I was forced to do that one a couple weeks ago and had to stop in Issaquah instead of going direct to Olympia from North Bend because the Cle Elum chargers were down.

Leavenworth > Olympia > Seattle in a 90% charged LR3 is just barely possible at 70+mph if Cle Elum is unavailable.

There is an Auburn charger that's probably 75% complete but now construction has stalled for the last couple weeks. Supposedly waiting for pedestal hardware to become available, but there's been rumors now that other sites are starting to install the pedestals yet still no movement with Auburn.

Edit: I should note, looking at the reports of the Auburn charger it was first reported early in the year, construction started sometime mid May and seemed to stall around June, and hasn't picked up again. Obviously V3 was announced between when the first reports of it went out and before the permit/construction in May, so that might have explained some delay (or at least not a rush to start it). Hold ups with supplies could explain some of the delay since June to now, but it's crazy that they have this big of a hold up. Either V3 hardware isn't exactly "prime time" ready and required a lot more tweaking, or supercharger hardware he's been going somewhere else (overseas?)

Hopefully this location isn't 9+ months, but I'm not holding my breath at this point. I just really wish Tesla would try to be more honest or accurate. There are so many official pins on Tesla's site saying "Target End of 2019" that we know last year said end of '18. If Tesla has no plans for Spokane or Yakima even being permitted this year they should just say "Coming soon" and then update with a rough date estimate when they actually start working, or flat out say "Coming end of 2020" so we know it's way out there.

 

[PLUS EV]

Yes, North Bend is a key location for people making long trips who want to avoid the Seattle area. Lynnwood and Monroe are good options on the north end, but right now there are no good options on the south end. So if you're going from Pierce, Kitsap, Thurston Counties or anywhere on the Olympic peninsula to Eastern WA (or vice versa), you are kind of forced to struggle with traffic and the crowded Issaquah supercharger or attempt an uncomfortably long leg to make it to the Cle Elum supercharger. Auburn would help this situation as well, but not as much as North Bend. Everyone taking I-90 across the state will go through North Bend.

 

[floatplane]

I don’t think that makes sense. Supposedly the LR and SR+ both have 4 modules. LR has 4,416 cells and the SR+ has 2,976 cells. Base on those numbers and a 50kWh / 75 kWh the cells have roughly the same capacity. Assuming the cells charge at the same rate, the LR is delivering ~56 watts to each cell... the SR+ should be able to do 168kW peak. Again, if they could increase to max V2 supercharger rate (140 to 150kW) that would be awesome, and cut the 10-50% SOC gain from about 12 minutes down to 8 minutes.

Even if you do the math based on the AC charge rate difference the SR+ should be able to do ~159kW at the superchargers. So for it to be almost rock steady at 100kW from 10% out to almost 50% SOC, it seems likely that it’s software limited.

Wikipedia says the “true” SR has 2976 cells, 2/3rds of the LR’s but doesn’t mention the cell count for the SR+. By “true SR” I mean the version that was never released to the public. The only “SR’s” released were software locked SR PLUSES. It does say the battery capacity of the 3 versions are 50, 62, and 75kWh, implying the SR+ has 3696 cells. If each module is 12.5kWh, then 4 modules would have existed in the true SR, 5 in the SR+, and 6 in the LR.

Whatever the arrangement of cells is, I have known since before I ordered mine in June 2018, that the LR would always charge quicker than the SR or SR+ even on V2 SCs. That’s why I spent more $$$ than I can afford to get the LR, and get it earlier. It appears it wasn’t widely known, but you still bought a great product.

There is one known way you can keep up or maybe outrun an LR on a long trip. That is to tailgate a truck or other large vehicle. You can get up to 30% more range, and so have fewer charging stops. The slower speed (behind a truck or not) also helps increase range and more than makes up for the idle time while charging if that extra range gets you to the next SC.

Autopilot on minimum distance following should keep you safe, however truckers don’t like people doing this and may try to shake you off, some more aggressively than others. I am not doing this trick myself but I know someone who does it in an older model S.

 

[PLUS EV]

There is one known way you can keep up or maybe outrun an LR on a long trip. That is to tailgate a truck or other large vehicle. You can get up to 30% more range, and so have fewer charging stops. The slower speed (behind a truck or not) also helps increase range and more than makes up for the idle time while charging if that extra range gets you to the next SC.

Autopilot on minimum distance following should keep you safe, however truckers don’t like people doing this and may try to shake you off, some more aggressively than others. I am not doing this trick myself but I know someone who does it in an older model S.

I have fond memories of doing this on the first ever all-supercharger crossing of Wyoming on I-80 back in 2017. Only the Rock Springs and Cheyenne superchargers were open at the time (I was the first one to charge at Rock Springs!) so I really had to hypermile. And yes, some truckers don't seem to mind the drafting while others go batshit crazy. I had one guy drive more than half his semi out onto the gravelly shoulder in an attempt to kick debris back at my windshield

 

[Big Earl]

Wikipedia says the “true” SR has 2976 cells, 2/3rds of the LR’s but doesn’t mention the cell count for the SR+. By “true SR” I mean the version that was never released to the public. The only “SR’s” released were software locked SR PLUSES. It does say the battery capacity of the 3 versions are 50, 62, and 75kWh, implying the SR+ has 3696 cells. If each module is 12.5kWh, then 4 modules would have existed in the true SR, 5 in the SR+, and 6 in the LR.

Whatever the arrangement of cells is, I have known since before I ordered mine in June 2018, that the LR would always charge quicker than the SR or SR+ even on V2 SCs. That’s why I spent more $$$ than I can afford to get the LR, and get it earlier. It appears it wasn’t widely known, but you still bought a great product.

There is one known way you can keep up or maybe outrun an LR on a long trip. That is to tailgate a truck or other large vehicle. You can get up to 30% more range, and so have fewer charging stops. The slower speed (behind a truck or not) also helps increase range and more than makes up for the idle time while charging if that extra range gets you to the next SC.

Autopilot on minimum distance following should keep you safe, however truckers don’t like people doing this and may try to shake you off, some more aggressively than others. I am not doing this trick myself but I know someone who does it in an older model S.

SR and SR+ have the same number of cells. SR is just a software locked (barely) SR+.

 

[acarney]

Wikipedia says the “true” SR has 2976 cells, 2/3rds of the LR’s but doesn’t mention the cell count for the SR+. By “true SR” I mean the version that was never released to the public. The only “SR’s” released were software locked SR PLUSES. It does say the battery capacity of the 3 versions are 50, 62, and 75kWh, implying the SR+ has 3696 cells. If each module is 12.5kWh, then 4 modules would have existed in the true SR, 5 in the SR+, and 6 in the LR.

Whatever the arrangement of cells is, I have known since before I ordered mine in June 2018, that the LR would always charge quicker than the SR or SR+ even on V2 SCs. That’s why I spent more $$$ than I can afford to get the LR, and get it earlier. It appears it wasn’t widely known, but you still bought a great product.

There is one known way you can keep up or maybe outrun an LR on a long trip. That is to tailgate a truck or other large vehicle. You can get up to 30% more range, and so have fewer charging stops. The slower speed (behind a truck or not) also helps increase range and more than makes up for the idle time while charging if that extra range gets you to the next SC.

Autopilot on minimum distance following should keep you safe, however truckers don’t like people doing this and may try to shake you off, some more aggressively than others. I am not doing this trick myself but I know someone who does it in an older model S.

That 62kWh pack isn’t the SR+. That was the short lived MR with approx 260 mile range. From my understanding the SR/SR+ have exactly the same battery and it’s software locked. It is clearly a software limit on supercharging speed. If it’s really a technical limit to protect the battery (cells are more frequently cycled because of smaller capacity etc) then ok... that’s incredibly frustrating. BUT, if Tesla is at all doing it to open up more of a gap between SR+ and LR sales, then I really hope they remove the limit while on V2 chargers at some point...

At some point it’s going to be worth while to tap every resource again to keep supercharger congestion down, and if you can save 4 minutes or so per car by opening up that V2 rate... Tesla should do it now.

 

[mociaf9]

So, here's one for the "Huh, that's kind of weird" file--
Washington One Call ticket # 19405928

Ticket No: 19405928
Original Call Date: 09/13/19 12:37 pm
Work to Begin Date: 09/18/19 12:00 am
Expiration Date: 10/28/19 12:45 pm

Company Name: BLACKSTONE CONSTRUCTION
Contact Name: NIC HAUGEN

Type of Work: INSTALL ELEC
Work Being Done For: TESLA

State: WA County: KING Place: NORTH BEND
Address: 46600 SE NORTH BEND WAY

Location of Work: EXCAVATION SITE IS ON THE W SIDE OF THE ROAD. ADD IS APX 2 BLKS N OF INTER. MARK AREA MARKED IN WHITE IN PARKING LOT ALONG NORTH BEND WAY AT ABV ADD.
Remarks: AREA MARKED IN WHITE. CALLER LAT /LONG
Caller GPS: Lat: 47 28 4.84 Lon: -121 42 59.04

It's a utilities location request by Blackstone Construction--this is the same group (and same point contacts) that recently did the work on the Spokane and Moses Lake superchargers (both sites only have the infrastructure done so far)--in preparation for digging to install new electrical service for Tesla at the TA truck stop/Country Pride restaurant in North Bend. The site address is 46600 SE North Bend Way. And the call request included exact GPS coordinates on the property--47.468011, -121.716400--which is right around where I'd expect a supercharger to go if they were going to build one there.

So, I did a bit more poking around and also found a ready to issue building permit for "Clearing & Grading" by Tesla at that location.

What the heck? Could Tesla have plans to build 2 superchargers in North Bend? I'm a little dubious, but I can't really think of anything else that would fit.

 

[acarney]

So, here's one for the "Huh, that's kind of weird" file--
Washington One Call ticket # 19405928

It's a utilities location request by Blackstone Construction--this is the same group (and same point contacts) that recently did the work on the Spokane and Moses Lake superchargers (both sites only have the infrastructure done so far)--in preparation for digging to install new electrical service for Tesla at the TA truck stop/Country Pride restaurant in North Bend. The site address is 46600 SE North Bend Way. And the call request included exact GPS coordinates on the property--47.468011, -121.716400--which is right around where I'd expect a supercharger to go if they were going to build one there.

So, I did a bit more poking around and also found a ready to issue building permit for "Clearing & Grading" by Tesla at that location.

What the heck? Could Tesla have plans to build 2 superchargers in North Bend? I'm a little dubious, but I can't really think of anything else that would fit.

If I had my pick, I actually think I would rather have the first location. Even though it's a little walk to some fast food and Starbucks along a busy road, I would much rather have that ability (with a street light to cross at and side walks) then not have the ability and be out at a truck stop.

The truck stop could be a perfect location for a megacharger though, but it would be really weird for Tesla to start sites for that so far outside of California, unless it's along a well known route of some of their first order companies...

Also initially thought it might be an issue with westbound or eastbound traffic either not being able to enter the freeway again from the original location or exit the freeway near the charger. However, that doesn't look like the case. Doesn't appear to be an issues with on/off ramps in either direction or protected "no left turn" medians that would force someone to go a few blocks down and do a u-turn or something. (Though I would be wildly impressed if in that situation Tesla built a second location for ease of access. I would think the "norm" would be to do a weird down a couple blocks, into a parking lot, turn around, go back up a few blocks, lol)

 

[ReddyLeaf]

So, here's one for the "Huh, that's kind of weird" file--
Washington One Call ticket # 19405928

It's a utilities location request by Blackstone Construction--this is the same group (and same point contacts) that recently did the work on the Spokane and Moses Lake superchargers (both sites only have the infrastructure done so far)--in preparation for digging to install new electrical service for Tesla at the TA truck stop/Country Pride restaurant in North Bend. The site address is 46600 SE North Bend Way. And the call request included exact GPS coordinates on the property--47.468011, -121.716400--which is right around where I'd expect a supercharger to go if they were going to build one there.

So, I did a bit more poking around and also found a ready to issue building permit for "Clearing & Grading" by Tesla at that location.

What the heck? Could Tesla have plans to build 2 superchargers in North Bend? I'm a little dubious, but I can't really think of anything else that would fit.

That’s is definitely weird, though it’s possible that the outlet mall site fell through. Maybe the mall decided that EA chargers were sufficient. Anyway, this site is usually easier in/out than the mall (less car traffic, but can be clogged with trucks) but with way fewer food choices. I highly doubt that there is a realistic need for two SCs in North Bend until the next decade.

 

[acarney]

That’s is definitely weird, though it’s possible that the outlet mall site fell through. Maybe the mall decided that EA chargers were sufficient. Anyway, this site is usually easier in/out than the mall (less car traffic, but can be clogged with trucks) but with way fewer food choices. I highly doubt that there is a realistic need for two SCs in North Bend until the next decade.

I just want my Starbucks! LOL

Again before people bitch about burnt coffee. I love it because it uses up just about the right amount of time (10 to 15 minutes), has bathrooms in fairly good condition, usually is open long hours, and has basically exactly the same menu items and quality at all their locations. I know what I'm walking into, and that's a iced chai tea in the late summer early fall, restroom, and maybe treat and then I'm back out and in the car

 

[mociaf9]

The truck stop could be a perfect location for a megacharger though, but it would be really weird for Tesla to start sites for that so far outside of California, unless it's along a well known route of some of their first order companies...

Yeah, I considered that too, but the location on the property is totally wrong for a megacharger. You wouldn't put it out in the regular car parking area. It would go in the truck parking area, which is on the opposite side of the property. To use a megacharger in this specific spot, the truck would have to unhitch first, drive over and charge up, then drive back and re-hitch.