Supercharger - Osoyoos, BC

[Eco-Logical]

Regarding Supercharger site "promises". I could've sworn there are ones around here that have rolled over 3 years in a row, no? Like the "Sicamous" one that's probably going to be Salmon Arm.

They are indeed being ridiculous regarding communication on that subject, but I'm still just surprised at all that they eventually build anything here. Such a small market.



I'm not good at wording things so they don't sound overly blunt, but...

They don't need it to make sense to anyone that's not an EE (or just not familiar with the specific context of it all). For example, the signalling pins. They might seem trivial to some, but they're absolutely necessary for a huge list of reasons, safety included. The experts work this all out for us, and it doesn't need to make sense to us. Primarily, there isn't much point building a separate DC signalling port if the AC port will work just fine without having to add more parts ($$$) and more complexity ($$$). CHAdeMO went that way, and look how it's ending up - nearing obsolescence (though I'm sure there's other reasons for this). Any consumer-facing standard that's overly complex and expensive to implement will eventually fall out of favour of the manufacturers. CCS Combo simplifies things (admittedly, this is a huge hand-wave).

Back to my original post ... Tesla supports CCS Type 2 but not Type 1 ... CHAdeMO is limited to 50 kW (essentially obsolete) and the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter is expensive at C$600 ... how do Tesla owners get access to the full (up to 350 kW) charge rate on non-Tesla charge stations in North America?

My suggestion: North American DCFC stations need to add CCS Type 2 connectors in addition to the existing CCS Type 1 connectors.

 

[MP3Mike]

how do Tesla owners get access to the full (up to 350 kW) charge rate on non-Tesla charge stations in North America?

They don't and never will. You have to have a ~1,000 volt HV battery to get 350kW on CCS. Tesla runs around 400 volts when fully charged. So even if Tesla provided a CCS adapter the most you could possibly get is 175-200kW, with the 175kW being when close to empty and the 200kW when being fully charged where you will never get a high kW charge.

Though Tesla limits the CCS2 adapter to 142kW, so that is likely the most you will ever get even if they release a CCS1 adapter in NA. (Taken from Supercharging)

My suggestion: North American DCFC stations need to add CCS Type 2 connectors in addition to the existing CCS Type 1 connectors.

How would that help? There is no adapter to go from CCS Type 2 to the NA Tesla charge port. So you still wouldn't be able to use it. (And older S&X cars would still need a retrofit.)

 

[Eco-Logical]

They don't and never will. You have to have a ~1,000 volt HV battery to get 350kW on CCS. Tesla runs around 400 volts when fully charged. So even if Tesla provided a CCS adapter the most you could possibly get is 175-200kW, with the 175kW being when close to empty and the 200kW when being fully charged where you will never get a high kW charge.

Though Tesla limits the CCS2 adapter to 142kW, so that is likely the most you will ever get even if they release a CCS1 adapter in NA. (Taken from Supercharging)



How would that help? There is no adapter to go from CCS Type 2 to the NA Tesla charge port. So you still wouldn't be able to use it. (And older S&X cars would still need a retrofit.)

My Tesla M3 LR charges at 250 kW on V3 superchargers from 0% to 50% SOC.

 

[MP3Mike]

My Tesla M3 LR charges at 250 kW on V3 superchargers from 0% to 50% SOC.

Yeah, so what? That is using the native charge port. The NA Model S&X can charge at 250kW from a V3 Supercharger as well. But in Europe if you charge a S, or X, at a V3 stall you have to use the adapter and you are limited to 142kW. (Adding an adapter limits your maximum power throughput.)

 

[Eco-Logical]

My Tesla M3 LR charges at 250 kW on V3 superchargers from 0% to 50% SOC.

Tesla makes an adapter - CCS Type 2 to Tesla charge port - for older S/X models in Europe.

 

[Eco-Logical]

My Tesla M3 LR charges at 250 kW on V3 superchargers from 0% to 50% SOC.

Tesla makes a CCS Type 2 to Tesla charge port

Yeah, so what? That is using the native charge port. The NA Model S&X can charge at 250kW from a V3 Supercharger as well. But in Europe if you charge a S, or X, at a V3 stall you have to use the adapter and you are limited to 142kW. (Adding an adapter limits your maximum power throughput.)

142 kW is a lot better than 50 kW on CHAdeMO, even better than Tesla V2 superchargers!

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla makes an adapter - CCS Type 2 to Tesla charge port - for older S/X models in Europe.

But that is for European Teslas that have a Type 2, or Mennekes, charge port. You can't use it on a NA, North American, Tesla which has a proprietary Tesla charge port. So it won't help you use an Electrify America station even if they offered a CCS Type 2 cable.

142 kW is a lot better than 50 kW on CHAdeMO, even better than Tesla V2 superchargers!

Nope. Tesla V2 Superchargers are 150kW.

 

[Eco-Logical]

But that is for European Teslas that have a Type 2, or Mennekes, charge port. You can't use it on a NA, North American, Tesla which has a proprietary Tesla charge port. So it won't help you use an Electrify America station even if they offered a CCS Type 2 cable.



Nope. Tesla V2 Superchargers are 150kW.

Wow! Older European Teslas have a different charge port than NA Teslas, what a mess!

It appears that NA Tesla owners' only hope for > 100 kW charge rate on non-Tesla DCFC stations is a CCS Type 1 adapter from Tesla.

 

[MP3Mike]

Wow! Older European Teslas have a different charge port than NA Teslas, what a mess!

All European Teslas have a different charge port than NA Teslas. (Even current ones.)

 

[PLUS EV]

All European Teslas have a different charge port than NA Teslas. (Even current ones.)

Yes.

And let's get back on topic. Anyone have any info on the Osoyoos supercharger?!?

 

[X-Men]

Hey everyone. I have been contacting the town planning department and city manger monthly for updates since it was announced last July. Done my best to explain the significance of this charging station to all the communities and businesses along and around these routes. Does not seem like a high priority at this time. I suppose that goes without saying given the inactivity since the time it was announced. It appears to be a city of Osoyoos issue as opposed to a Tesla one. For the first few months after the announcement, there was a fellow in the planning department who was excited about the project and pleasant to speak and deal with. He has subsequently moved on and the tone amongst others I have communicated with has changed. This is my first post (in any forum ever actually). I am not familiar with the etiquette by any stretch of the imagination and I hope I haven’t rambled in too much or broken any other protocols. I’d be happy to provide names and phone numbers for the responsible parties, as far as decisions are concerned, if there is any interest.

Have you been to the charger location lately. Doesn't look like anyone on here is closer than you? If you happen to be in the area, please stop and take a look. Looks like construction crews are in that area working on nearby location. There is a strong possibility some base building might be happening there.

 

[mybabyblue]

I talked to the head planner in Osoyoos last week. She said that Tesla is in the planning stage after which it goes to town council for what sounds like a rubber stamp. Sounds like construction won't take place till Spring.

 

[Worldfishnski]

I finally went by in the day time.

Based on the (reported) address on the permit there is no activity.

It looks like an ideal location.

I ran into the crew working in Princeton.

Osoyoos is on the list but not highest priority.

They lead me to believe that it will happen in 2021 but that adding capacity in, for example, Kelowna is a higher priority

 

[MarcoRP]

Update on Osoyoos (snippets copied from Tweet):

On October 5th, the city amended their agreement with Tesla to bring Superchargers to 8513 74th Ave. The biggest change is that Tesla will be installing 3 CCS/CHAdeMO in addition to the 8 V3 Superchargers instead of the 4 Level 2 stations originally proposed, which they will be installing thanks to a recently approved NRCan grant. Tesla will take possession of the lot April 1st 2021 and will have 365 days to complete the build.

Agreement with Tesla Inc (pdf)

 

[PLUS EV]

Tesla will take possession of the lot April 1st 2021 and will have 365 days to complete the build.

I can't wait till April 2022!!

 

[mociaf9]

Update on Osoyoos (snippets copied from Tweet):

On October 5th, the city amended their agreement with Tesla to bring Superchargers to 8513 74th Ave. The biggest change is that Tesla will be installing 3 CCS/CHAdeMO in addition to the 8 V3 Superchargers instead of the 4 Level 2 stations originally proposed, which they will be installing thanks to a recently approved NRCan grant. Tesla will take possession of the lot April 1st 2021 and will have 365 days to complete the build.

Agreement with Tesla Inc (pdf)

View attachment 602935 View attachment 602936

That's pretty exciting and probably explains, at least in part, why they didn't start construction this year. Sounds a lot like Tesla's plans for the Jasper supercharger, too.

I read the documents, and they say that Tesla is going to apply for a grant from NRCan for the generic DCFCs. Where's the info coming from that they've already been approved for the funding? Tesla isn't on NRCan's list of successful applicants for either phase 1 or phase 2, and funding decisions for 2020 aren't going to be released until November.

 

[mociaf9]

Seems I misread. Sorry for the error

Darn! I was hoping you had the inside scoop.

 

[Erebus]

I can't wait till April 2022!!

seems Tesla are building in Entiat WA too, just down the highway, albeit closed for now!

 

[mociaf9]

Update on Osoyoos (snippets copied from Tweet):

On October 5th, the city amended their agreement with Tesla to bring Superchargers to 8513 74th Ave. The biggest change is that Tesla will be installing 3 CCS/CHAdeMO in addition to the 8 V3 Superchargers instead of the 4 Level 2 stations originally proposed, which they will be installing thanks to a recently approved NRCan grant. Tesla will take possession of the lot April 1st 2021 and will have 365 days to complete the build.

Agreement with Tesla Inc (pdf)

View attachment 602935 View attachment 602936

So, reading the leasing agreement (Section #5), the deal is that Tesla is building an 8-stall supercharger and is applying for NRCan funding to cover an additional 3 stalls for "universal" charging. If their application is successful then they'll include 3 CCS+CHAdeMO DCFC stations. If they don't get the grant, then rather than those 3 stalls being DCFC Tesla will instead install 3 L2 stations (HPWC with J1772 plugs). The L2 stations would be free to use (Tesla covers the electricity) initially, though that could change in the future if Tesla ever implements a system that would enable them to bill people for using them. The DCFC would have a fee to use.

This deal structure is much better for Tesla than the one they were able to secure with Jasper. In Jasper, the whole deal hinges on them getting the NRCan funding for the CCS/CHAdeMO DCFC stations at that site. If their application for that one isn't approved, then the supercharger won't get built unless Tesla can go back and convince the city to allow it, which didn't sound likely. In Osoyoos, the supercharger is getting built regardless and it's just the scope of the portion of the project for the universal charging stations that is dependent on the NRCan funding.

 

[mociaf9]

Where's the info coming from that they've already been approved for the funding? Tesla isn't on NRCan's list of successful applicants for either phase 1 or phase 2, and funding decisions for 2020 aren't going to be released until November.

So, it turns out that I was potentially mistaken about this. NRCan apparently has 2 different programs that provide funding for building EV charging stations. The one I knew about and used as the source for my comments was the EV and Alternative Fuels Infrastructure Deployment Initiative--which has had 2 funding phases without any money going to Tesla and which is aiming to announce the 2020 batch of successful applicants in November. The second program which I just learned about from another post on this forum is the Zero Emission Vehicle Infrastructure Program--under which Tesla has been granted $794k to be spent on building 27 charging stations in British Columbia.