Hmm...let's not get ahead of ourselves. This location only opened yesterday 
Time will tell if the unusual stall layout us a problem or not.
Time will tell if the unusual stall layout us a problem or not.
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Supercharger - Petaluma, CA (EXPANDED Jun 2018, now 20 V2 stalls)
- Thread starter P85David
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- California Supercharging USA
The supercharger stalls in Hamilton Twp, NJ are also back-to-back; they installed rubber wheel stops at the back of the parking spaces, so it's easy to just roll back and stop exactly where one ought. Perhaps something like that could be added at Petaluma.
These stalls aren't back-to-back, they are designed so you can pull in to the closest spot and stop or continue through to the farthest spot. If a car is already pulled into the closest spot and the farthest spot is open, you can back into the farthest spot. This unique arrangement avoids the need to back in or out under most circumstances, assuming people always pull through to the farthest spot. I generally try to park this way in normal parking lots whenever possible.
Bugeater
Member
ChopinBlues
Member
What time were you there? I amazed that you were the only one, on the last day of a 3-day weekend, especially due to the fact that I made a day trip up there on Sunday just for grins, and shortly after I arrived, every slot but one was filled! Got me rather concerned that they have too few chargers!
Merrill
Merrill
Do not forget that this was Valentine's Day and Presidents' Day weekend, the few times I have been there it has not been that busy.
I was there early afternoon yesterday probably close to the same time and there were two other cars (one of which was a P85D with dealer plates).
I actually got bitten by the odd pairing of the stalls and had to move for full charge rate. The back row and front row pairs are offset by one, leaving the front-left and back-right paired.
I actually got bitten by the odd pairing of the stalls and had to move for full charge rate. The back row and front row pairs are offset by one, leaving the front-left and back-right paired.
ChopinBlues
Member
I also noticed the seemingly illogical pairing -- are you saying there's actually a pattern? Can you post a diagram indicating what it is, for future reference?
From memory, so the actual numbers may be wrong, and can't quite read the numbers from bugeater's pictures. Top is towards the street:
3A 1A 1B 2A 2B
4A 4B 5A 5B 3B
The dealer-plate P85D was in 1A so, seeing the 4B/5A alignment, pulled into 1B thinking it'd be on a separate pair - I couldn't see the the front row numbers driving by, so I assumed they were the same as the back row numbers.
Close, but no cigar.
From MarkG's post in the "NorCal Supercharger Locations" thread:
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"I just stopped by to supercharge at Petaluma this early evening and noticed the pairing is a little odd.
Since there are 10 stalls laid out in 2 rows of 5, I was expecting that each column would be on a shared cabinet.
Meaning each column would have the same number and the two A & B letters, such as 1A and 1B, 2A and 2B, etc.
Therefore one of the rows would be 1A through 5A, and the second 1B through 5B:
1A 2A 3A 4A 5A
1B 2B 3B 4B 5B
Instead, the rows are arranged as follows:
3B 4A 4B 5A 5B
1A 1B 2A 2B 3A
Which seems really goofy to me."
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When I questioned the Tesla employees who designed the site regarding the "goofy" layout/pairing (as I was doing the inaugural charge the evening before it officially opened, when they were still putting on the finishing touches & testing the individual pedestals), they explained that they were still trying out various designs with new supercharger sites to see what works best, and this was their reasoning for the layout: They felt that arriving drivers generally avoid parking immediately next to another car in an adjacent stall, preferring instead to leave an empty stall between them & the other car. On this basis, they intentionally laid out the pairing with 1A and 1B adjacent to each other, and also intended that anyone pulling into a slot where both front & rear stalls were empty would/should pull forward into the furthest (front) stall. This would leave the rear (first) stall empty for another Tesla to pull in frontward, as well as allowing the first car that arrived to pull out when finished by simply driving forward out of the stall. Each driver would also be on a separate charge circuit, for maximum power, unlike if they paired A & B into one "column." Another advantage: If no one had backed into the front stall yet, the rear (2nd to arrive) driver could also leave by driving straight ahead through the now-empty front stall, further minimizing how often a driver needs to back out of a stall.
This is all makes sense, so I couldn't really argue with the idea, but without signage clearly instructing drivers to pull forward when they arrive, it is obviously not going to work & will just confuse everyone & turn into a big can of worms, as demonstrated by the trouble & confusion everyone is already having as described in the posts in the two threads here on TMC as they try to figure out what's going on.
I think simple, clear signage is almost mandatory at this site if this layout has any chance at all of working. With proper signage, I think this layout has a good chance of being successful, even of being superior to the various layouts at other supercharger sites I've charged at. Without signage, forget it.
i also don't know if the designers' idea about people avoiding pulling in right next to another car is based on their intuition or on actual research/experience, although it does make sense. Hats off to Tesla for being creative & willing to experiment, but they will need to be very careful to follow up, fine-tune, and learn from what's happening here & at the other SC sites as they experiment to find the best way to do this.
MarcG
Active Member
Thanks for posting Tesla's explanation here (I wasn't aware of this thread until now, sorry...)
The snippet I just quoted from your post would support having the entire front row as "A" stalls, such as:
1A 2A 3A 4A 5A
1B 2B 3B 4B 5B
However this does conflict with the idea of keeping a space between each car, which is indeed a common behavior among most drivers (not just Tesla owners).
And I totally agree with the need for more signage. From my 18 supercharging events so far, I've noticed that few Model S drivers are aware of the A versus B differences, let alone parking properly to prevent blocking others from charging...
I'll repost my pictures from the other thread here to show this prime example of obliviousness to potentially blocking others:
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I'd expect that the owners of $70k+ cars would be even more likely than the average driver to want to pull into a space with no one on either side, to avoid door dings. And this matches normal social behavior, among Americans in any case, who prefer more personal space than some other cultures.
Social scientists have observed the order in which people occupy seats (or urinals for that matter), and in the U.S. we will normally leave as much space between us and someone else as we can, as long as aren't seriously inconveniencing ourselves. Car parking does add an extra element, though, as people are loath to walk any further than necessary, even if it means parking between two cars instead of taking a more open space. I suspect Tesla owners will be more willing to walk a little further.
Walking is a good thing period, given that 1/3rd of Americans are obese and another third merely overweight.
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
e-FTW
New electron smell
Had my first supercharger experience here last night. Plenty of open stalls at 7pm.
The unusual layout had me thinking of one thing: we need to run a pool to see who can guess correctly when the first incident of someone in a Model X pulling in with something in tow and blocking the rear position.
The earlier suggestion of adding rubber stops in between the stalls may get some traction, even if is super convenient to be able to pull in and out forward. I did it.
BTW, I picked my stall based on availability of an empty pair. And away from other cars... :smile:
The unusual layout had me thinking of one thing: we need to run a pool to see who can guess correctly when the first incident of someone in a Model X pulling in with something in tow and blocking the rear position.
The earlier suggestion of adding rubber stops in between the stalls may get some traction, even if is super convenient to be able to pull in and out forward. I did it.
BTW, I picked my stall based on availability of an empty pair. And away from other cars... :smile:
e-FTW
New electron smell
Here are two pics to illustrate the human behavior aspect that was mentioned previously, and my hunt for a non-shared stall.
I was in the Petaluma shopping center today (not charging), and when I came out of Dick's sporting goods, this is what I saw.
As you can see, they weren't only blocking double pull through spots, they took the charging cables and twisted them around mirrors or placed them in their gas tanks. I called Tesla and reported them, though I'm guessing there isn't much they can do. I also returned the cables to the towers, in case the trucks pulled away and damaged them.
I was pretty furious for a while and planned to post these without blocking their plates, but thought better of it. No need to stoop.
Really the definition of ignorance, though.
As you can see, they weren't only blocking double pull through spots, they took the charging cables and twisted them around mirrors or placed them in their gas tanks. I called Tesla and reported them, though I'm guessing there isn't much they can do. I also returned the cables to the towers, in case the trucks pulled away and damaged them.
I was pretty furious for a while and planned to post these without blocking their plates, but thought better of it. No need to stoop.
Really the definition of ignorance, though.
Superharger - Petaluma
A simple case of deep ignorance and narrow mindedness.
They don't realize what kind of statement they are making: "Look at me, I'm being a reactionary jerk and protesting against people who don't want to use fossil fuels, as opposed to my incredibly inefficient fossil fuel-burning pollution machines!"
If I had taken those photos I would not have blocked the plate numbers. It's a public parking lot.
A simple case of deep ignorance and narrow mindedness.
They don't realize what kind of statement they are making: "Look at me, I'm being a reactionary jerk and protesting against people who don't want to use fossil fuels, as opposed to my incredibly inefficient fossil fuel-burning pollution machines!"
If I had taken those photos I would not have blocked the plate numbers. It's a public parking lot.
ProphetM
Member
I would agree - there is no expectation of privacy in a place such as that, and no reason whatsoever to avoid posting a photo with someone's license plate in it, regardless of what they are doing.
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