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Supercharger - Poncha Springs, CO

dgpcolorado

high altitude member
Apr 25, 2015
2,695
4,070
The Western Slope, Colorado
EV Trip Planner shows about 180 RM for an S85 in mild weather and a speed factor of 1.1 (which I find works better than 1.0). A large battery car should make it easily, so it depends on what car one is driving. I'd have trouble doing it in my S60.

One thing to consider is that both the car nav system and route planners seem not to take altitude into account. For speeds of 65 mph or lower I find that they tend to be too conservative for routes at high altitude. I presume that this is because the reduced air density lowers drag significantly. GJ to Poncha Springs in a large battery car ought to be easy, despite the elevation gain, so long as one doesn't go too fast. Also, when east bound, a tailwind is much more likely than a headwind.
 

ThisIsTrue

Re-member
Nov 29, 2016
619
892
'Western Slope' Colorado
A large battery car should make it easily, so it depends on what car one is driving. I'd have trouble doing it in my S60.

So it becomes clear why they're planning on a SC in Montrose, which is roughly the half-way point between GJ and Poncha.

Really appreciate the Poncha charger: it's going to cut an hour or more off my trip to Boulder next week.
 

Bighorn

Top Supercharger
Jun 19, 2013
3,064
5,579
Big Horn, Wyoming
EV Trip Planner shows about 180 RM for an S85 in mild weather and a speed factor of 1.1 (which I find works better than 1.0). A large battery car should make it easily, so it depends on what car one is driving. I'd have trouble doing it in my S60.

One thing to consider is that both the car nav system and route planners seem not to take altitude into account. For speeds of 65 mph or lower I find that they tend to be too conservative for routes at high altitude. I presume that this is because the reduced air density lowers drag significantly. GJ to Poncha Springs in a large battery car ought to be easy, despite the elevation gain, so long as one doesn't go too fast. Also, when east bound, a tailwind is much more likely than a headwind.
Both actually take elevation into account. You can see the increased energy usage on the car’s Trip screen i.e. steeper slope on an ascent. Figure in about an extra 7 rated miles consumption per 1000 foot rise, so about 21 miles in this instance.
 

dgpcolorado

high altitude member
Apr 25, 2015
2,695
4,070
The Western Slope, Colorado
Both actually take elevation into account. You can see the increased energy usage on the car’s Trip screen i.e. steeper slope on an ascent. Figure in about an extra 7 rated miles consumption per 1000 foot rise, so about 21 miles in this instance.
I guess I wasn't clear — I'm trying to distinguish between elevation change and altitude. All the trip planners try to compensate for elevation delta. IME they do not adjust for density altitude. I've seen this in my own travels: if the trip is all at high altitude I get better results, compared to the trip planner estimates, than I do when traveling at sea level, other things being equal. This is because of reduced aerodynamic drag at altitude — fewer air molecules to push out of the way!

I mentioned it because many people aren't aware of it and it makes a trip like GJ to Poncha Springs easier to do than one might expect. Grand Junction is the low point of that trip, so all of it is at relatively high altitude.

Grand Junction to Poncha Springs.png


Take a look at that stretch from 100 miles to 160 miles — the base of Monarch Pass. Most of it is 65 mph, save for a few slower stretches, such as the city of Gunnison. And all of it is at fairly high altitude with significantly lower drag than if it was at sea level.

FWIW.

Just for fun, take a look at this plot of Woodburn OR Supercharger Station to Centralia WA Supercharger Station, a trip I have done:

Woodburn OR to Centralia WA.png


Kind of boring!
 
Last edited:

Bighorn

Top Supercharger
Jun 19, 2013
3,064
5,579
Big Horn, Wyoming
I guess I wasn't clear — I'm trying to distinguish between elevation change and altitude. All the trip planners try to compensate for elevation delta. IME they do not adjust for density altitude. I've seen this in my own travels: if the trip is all at high altitude I get better results, compared to the trip planner estimates, than I do when traveling at sea level, other things being equal. This is because of reduced aerodynamic drag at altitude — fewer air molecules to push out of the way!

I mentioned it because many people aren't aware of it and it makes a trip like GJ to Poncha Springs easier to do than one might expect. Grand Junction is the low point of that trip, so all of it is at relatively high altitude.

View attachment 278920

Take a look at that stretch from 100 miles to 160 miles — the base of Monarch Pass. Most of it is 65 mph, save for a few slower stretches, such as the city of Gunnison. And all of it is at fairly high altitude with significantly lower drag than if it was at sea level.

FWIW.

Just for fun, take a look at this plot of Woodburn OR Supercharger Station to Centralia WA Supercharger Station, a trip I have done:

View attachment 278921

Kind of boring!

Agreed! Not boring, but air density not factored in:)
 

aaronhoffman

Member
Oct 25, 2015
37
43
Grand Junction CO
When I try that link, it routes from Grand Junction to Montrose, back through Grand Junction and then on to Glenwood Springs and Poncha Springs.

Yeah, that link didn't work like I was hoping it would. I think you have to manually change the assumptions for the car that vespax described. I also had to bump the arrival goal to 5% to get the estimate I got.
 
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PLUS EV

Running on Empty
Sep 16, 2016
6,691
10,932
Seattle
There are air density calculators online. I used to use them for betting on MLB over/unders. Elevation is the most important factor, but temperature is also fairly big. I agree that none of the EV trip planner type calculators consider air density. Getting an extended range in the mountain time zone in summer is pretty nice!
 
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vespax

Member
Nov 5, 2017
70
97
Grand Junction
This has transitioned to an interesting discussion on air density, elevation and optimal outside temperatures. Thanks to all who have commented, especially dgpcolorado for analysis. New things I am learning in my 'journey' as an EV driver now.

I'm road tripping through Southern Chile this week... but when I get back to GJ I want to grab a warm day and make the run to see the stats for it. Maybe aaronhoffman can join the trip with larger battery in case my P85D doesn't make it all the way up the hill!
 

Adventure S

Member
Dec 21, 2015
10
5
Crested Butte, CO
This is SO awesome! Thanks Tesla!

I drive Breckenridge to Crested Butte round trip weekly, and my 2013 P85+ makes it on a single charge, but this will help for sure! I made the trip without stopping to charge when the temp was -22F last winter, which I assume is some kind of a record. A supercharger would have let me drive it full speed though - had to slow down to 45 mph to make it in those temps!
 

MX458Dave

Member
Apr 3, 2013
141
96
Boulder
Can someone please confirm for sure that this charger is good to go? Tesla just said it is not open, and I was planning a trip to Crested Butte today. Not taking the tesla if I can't charge there. Thanks!
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2015
10,250
9,983
Colorado
Can someone please confirm for sure that this charger is good to go? Tesla just said it is not open, and I was planning a trip to Crested Butte today. Not taking the tesla if I can't charge there. Thanks!
It's worked fine for several of us. I posted pictures from when we charged there nearly two weeks ago on 2/3. I think the reason it isn't officially open is because they don't have the site "street" lights installed yet. We were told they were damaged and they are waiting for replacements.
 

Dr. Dan

New Member
Feb 16, 2018
3
1
Monument, CO
Can someone please confirm for sure that this charger is good to go? Tesla just said it is not open, and I was planning a trip to Crested Butte today. Not taking the tesla if I can't charge there. Thanks!
I charged in Poncha Springs on Tuesday, 2/13/2018. Space 1A did not turn on for some reason, but Space 1B gave me 98 kW, which is about the most I ever get for my Model S 75D. BTW, there were some electricians there working on putting up lights, but they were not done by the time I left.
 

PLUS EV

Running on Empty
Sep 16, 2016
6,691
10,932
Seattle
There have been a few cases where superchargers have a "soft opening." I.e. the electricity is flowing for a while but it is not made official in the Nav or on the website and then later they power them down for some reason (defective part or something). You could try calling the host property and asking an employee if the red TESLA is illuminated on each bollard. If so, that means the electricity is flowing.
 

MX458Dave

Member
Apr 3, 2013
141
96
Boulder
Thanks guys. Took a chance. It worked great. Now it’s officially on the map! Popped up 10 minutes before arrival. The mom and pop Italian restaurant a block away does the job, just avoid the House red.
 
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