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Supercharger Price Increase

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Is it? Using these vehicles and numbers (have to use something) along with the average gas price in Virginia, gas is now cheaper.

Obviously one can use different vehicles, different locations, drive in a different manner, etc., etc. and manipulate the numbers all they want.

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Tesla’s Supercharger network until now has been a big selling factor for Tesla. With the new rates in Washington State, this advantage is greatly reduced. Therefore, I don’t think Tesla can fairly claim that their Supercharging network will never be more expensive than gas.

Let me give a couple examples and preface the examples with the fact that (1) Washington charges a yearly $150 charge on EV vehicles for roads, and (2) Tesla calculates their cost comparison on vehicles that get 21 MPG to the gallon with $2.73 for a gallon of gas. The examples are comparing a vehicles energy cost for gas to Supercharger costs that includes the $150 yearly EV charge:

1st EXAMPLE: Gas vehicle gets 50 MPG and drives 10,000 miles a year. My 2004 Toyota Prius gets 50 MPG.

Gas vehicle pays $546 a year for gas. Tesla Model 3 using Tesla’s Supercharger fees plus the yearly $150 EV fees charged by the state, pays $923.33 a year. Model 3 cost 69% more for energy than the gas vehicle.

2nd EXAMPLE: Gas vehicle gets 40 MPG and drives 10,000 miles a year.

Gas vehicle pays $682.50 a year for gas. Tesla Model 3 using Tesla’s Supercharger fees plus the yearly $150 EV fees charged by the state, pays $923.33 a year. Model 3 cost 35% more for energy than the gas vehicle.

* Washington state’s yearly $150 EV fee is included as energy cost because the fee is to make up for the taxes for roads that is included in the gas prices but not electricity rates.
 
Tesla’s Supercharger network until now has been a big selling factor for Tesla. With the new rates in Washington State, this advantage is greatly reduced. Therefore, I don’t think Tesla can fairly claim that their Supercharging network will never be more expensive than gas.

Let me give a couple examples and preface the examples with the fact that (1) Washington charges a yearly $150 charge on EV vehicles for roads, and (2) Tesla calculates their cost comparison on vehicles that get 21 MPG to the gallon with $2.73 for a gallon of gas. The examples are comparing a vehicles energy cost for gas to Supercharger costs that includes the $150 yearly EV charge:

1st EXAMPLE: Gas vehicle gets 50 MPG and drives 10,000 miles a year. My 2004 Toyota Prius gets 50 MPG.

Gas vehicle pays $546 a year for gas. Tesla Model 3 using Tesla’s Supercharger fees plus the yearly $150 EV fees charged by the state, pays $923.33 a year. Model 3 cost 69% more for energy than the gas vehicle.

2nd EXAMPLE: Gas vehicle gets 40 MPG and drives 10,000 miles a year.

Gas vehicle pays $682.50 a year for gas. Tesla Model 3 using Tesla’s Supercharger fees plus the yearly $150 EV fees charged by the state, pays $923.33 a year. Model 3 cost 35% more for energy than the gas vehicle.

* Washington state’s yearly $150 EV fee is included as energy cost because the fee is to make up for the taxes for roads that is included in the gas prices but not electricity rates.

This is if you are ONLY using the supercharger network to charge. NO ONE should be using the network as their main charging option. If I trade in my 2013 Hyundai Elantra that I spend $55/mo on for gas, it will cost me $11 a month to charge at home for the same amount of miles in the 3. I am also going to argue that if I took a roadtrip from Seattle to Prosser and back, it would still be cheaper to drive the model 3 using the supercharger network than paying for gas in the Elantra. That one would be close though and I didn’t do the math. The trip is 382 miles round trip. My guess would be < $25 for the charging and the Elantra would take an entire tank or slightly more at $25 a tank.
 
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Tesla’s Supercharger network until now has been a big selling factor for Tesla. With the new rates in Washington State, this advantage is greatly reduced. Therefore, I don’t think Tesla can fairly claim that their Supercharging network will never be more expensive than gas.

Let me give a couple examples and preface the examples with the fact that (1) Washington charges a yearly $150 charge on EV vehicles for roads, and (2) Tesla calculates their cost comparison on vehicles that get 21 MPG to the gallon with $2.73 for a gallon of gas. The examples are comparing a vehicles energy cost for gas to Supercharger costs that includes the $150 yearly EV charge:

1st EXAMPLE: Gas vehicle gets 50 MPG and drives 10,000 miles a year. My 2004 Toyota Prius gets 50 MPG.

Gas vehicle pays $546 a year for gas. Tesla Model 3 using Tesla’s Supercharger fees plus the yearly $150 EV fees charged by the state, pays $923.33 a year. Model 3 cost 69% more for energy than the gas vehicle.

2nd EXAMPLE: Gas vehicle gets 40 MPG and drives 10,000 miles a year.

Gas vehicle pays $682.50 a year for gas. Tesla Model 3 using Tesla’s Supercharger fees plus the yearly $150 EV fees charged by the state, pays $923.33 a year. Model 3 cost 35% more for energy than the gas vehicle.

* Washington state’s yearly $150 EV fee is included as energy cost because the fee is to make up for the taxes for roads that is included in the gas prices but not electricity rates.

I have not run any numbers, but you are comparing against supercharger rates only. The super chargers were not intended for charging your car for everyday use, home charging is a lot cheaper than the occasional road trip with supercharger use . Just my 2 cents.
 
I’m surprised we haven’t seen anyone on this thread yet reconsider their model 3 purchase on account of their plan to “Supercharge only” without a place to plug in at home.

The Illinois rate going from .15 to .24 has to get many apartment-dwelling Chicagoans thinking twice about the financial hit they stand to make by going electric.

Everyone was concerned there will be a “supercharger armegeddon” once model 3’s hit the road in numbers but now it seems like destination chargers / workplace chargers may incur a greater risk of being abused as people try to find ways to beat the system with the new fees.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around buying a $50k car to save money on gas. I've never seen a 40mpg car that has the performance of a Model 3. A gasoline pump can pump 10 gallon of gas a minute. That's 400 miles per minute. Superchargers need a huge electrical connection just to deliver 400 miles per hour. Gas stations just need a big tank. It makes sense that Superchargers would be more expensive than gas stations, they have 1/60th the throughput.
I'm looking forward to not going to gas stations or superchargers.
 
[QUOTE="IMHO supercharging should always be more expensive than charging at home otherwise the supercharging stations get clogged up with cheapskates.

I completely agree with this. We have to keep the superchargers as intended. Long range travel. Does Tesla pay for the real estate as well?
We have to keep what? Who is "we"?

So you raise the price to unclog supershargers?

That's like raising the price of groceries to keep the floors clean in the store. That's ludicrous.

Tesla should tout their supercharger network not keep their customers away from them. They should look at their competitors and say....
Look at our charging network.
Its the largest.....and most utilized out of any network that will ever exist.
Look Volvo....Mercedes......etc. No one is clamoring for a network of SC"s more than people are clamoring for ours. Your network is expensive and sparse.
People buy our cars because we have a reliable and inexpensive network that is dedicated to our customers.


________________

The charge in Illinois is now $0.24 per KWH. My average home price was $0.06 last month. 4 times the price of home? really?
 
I’m surprised we haven’t seen anyone on this thread yet reconsider their model 3 purchase on account of their plan to “Supercharge only” without a place to plug in at home.

The Illinois rate going from .15 to .24 has to get many apartment-dwelling Chicagoans thinking twice about the financial hit they stand to make by going electric.

Everyone was concerned there will be a “supercharger armegeddon” once model 3’s hit the road in numbers but now it seems like destination chargers / workplace chargers may incur a greater risk of being abused as people try to find ways to beat the system with the new fees.


$0.24 is ridiculous in Illinois.

Especially when California is only $0.26.

Hmmm I have an Idea....I'll open up my Solar panel production to the world for $0.12. Half of Tesla's price.
 
... but now it seems like destination chargers / workplace chargers may incur a greater risk of being abused as people try to find ways to beat the system with the new fees.
"Abused"? Isn't that what destination and workplace EVSEs are for?

What road trip comparisons of Supercharging cost versus gas cost sometimes overlook is that one generally leaves home with a "full tank" and if able to L2 charge at the destination, one starts the return trip with a full tank. The actual amount of Supercharging needed for a road trip is usually less than the number of miles covered. For shorter single-Supercharger-stop trips, it might be fewer than half the miles will be paid for at a Supercharger. So, an accurate cost comparison would include the cost of charging those initial miles at home or a destination.
 
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We have to keep what? Who is "we"?

So you raise the price to unclog supershargers?

That's like raising the price of groceries to keep the floors clean in the store. That's ludicrous.

Tesla should tout their supercharger network not keep their customers away from them. They should look at their competitors and say....
Look at our charging network.
Its the largest.....and most utilized out of any network that will ever exist.
Look Volvo....Mercedes......etc. No one is clamoring for a network of SC"s more than people are clamoring for ours. Your network is expensive and sparse.
People buy our cars because we have a reliable and inexpensive network that is dedicated to our customers.


________________

The charge in Illinois is now $0.24 per KWH. My average home price was $0.06 last month. 4 times the price of home? really?

Well, it’s .06 per kWh but then .06 per kWh delivery fee so closer to .12 per kWh out the door.

You can do the hourly program here in IL but it’s still close to a dime average plus or minus if you play it well
 
We have to keep what? Who is "we"?

So you raise the price to unclog supershargers?

That's like raising the price of groceries to keep the floors clean in the store. That's ludicrous.

Tesla should tout their supercharger network not keep their customers away from them. They should look at their competitors and say....
Look at our charging network.
Its the largest.....and most utilized out of any network that will ever exist.
Look Volvo....Mercedes......etc. No one is clamoring for a network of SC"s more than people are clamoring for ours. Your network is expensive and sparse.
People buy our cars because we have a reliable and inexpensive network that is dedicated to our customers.


________________

The charge in Illinois is now $0.24 per KWH. My average home price was $0.06 last month. 4 times the price of home? really?

I don't think they are raising prices to unclog superchargers, someone has to pay for those hundreds of millions on dollars spent to install them and who knows what commercial rates and fees they have been eating for years. If it is used for traveling long trips only then it should not impact people much. If anyone does not want to pay, then buy a MS/MX for a 100K. I have a referral code if someone needs it;)
 
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Tesla’s Supercharger network until now has been a big selling factor for Tesla. With the new rates in Washington State, this advantage is greatly reduced.

Supercharger network has been and will be a big selling factor, NOT because it gives them a free or cheap way to drive, because it gives them the ability to drive their EV anywhere in the USA - which no other EV does. As long Tesla is not price gouging and the cost is comparable to gas, SC network WILL be a great selling factor.

Remember the rates will hardly matter for 90% of the folks who charge at home and occasionally drive long distance..
 
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I have not run any numbers, but you are comparing against supercharger rates only. The super chargers were not intended for charging your car for everyday use, home charging is a lot cheaper than the occasional road trip with supercharger use . Just my 2 cents.
The point of my post is Tesla says their cost for Supercharging will be cheaper than gas, and yes Supercharging was intended for road trips. Therefore, my examples compare Supercharging on the road with paying for gas on the road. I am not including charging at home and It would be misleading by Tesla on one point to say Supercharging is for road trips and then include home charging to compare the Supercharger rates to a gas vehicle.

I have children and grandkids in three corners of the state and suspect I will be traveling on more than an occasional road trip. Therefore, before Tesla raised their Supercharging rates, the Supercharger network was a big selling point for me.

I think people need to know that Supercharging rates (on road trips) my be higher than a gas vehicle. I believe their statement that their charging rates are lower than gas prices is misleading.

For a person that may do a lot of road trips, a hybrid plug in vehicle may be a better option for a one vehicle family. This would allow home charging for home trips and lower gas prices than Tesla's Supercharging network for the road trips.
 
I have not run any numbers, but you are comparing against supercharger rates only. The super chargers were not intended for charging your car for everyday use, home charging is a lot cheaper than the occasional road trip with supercharger use . Just my 2 cents.
Your statement hasn’t been true for at least a year ever since Tesla acknowledged the need for urban Superchargers. You surely are aware that in many cities large numbers of residents don’t even have off street parking at their residences much less a way to charge an electric car?
 
I don't think they are raising prices to unclog superchargers, someone has to pay for those hundreds of millions on dollars spent to install them and who knows what commercial rates and fees they have been eating for years. If it is used for traveling long trips only then it should not impact people much. If anyone does not want to pay, then buy a MS/MX for a 100K. I have a referral code if someone needs it;)
Link?
 
Well this thread has become passionate... ;)

The state already collects this tax on Washingtonians in the form of a $150/year registration surcharge for EVs. They aren't trying to recover it through electricity, which is dirt cheap and plentiful here.
Electricity is relatively cheap here (between 11c (western Washington) and 3c (central Washington, aka Bitcoin miner central Wenatchee ;)), correct. Not all electricity in WA state is clean though.

I'm all for Tesla minimizing their losses on running SC. I love the SC network and think it is one of Tesla's most compelling threads when selecting EVs. That said....

I sure hope Tesla doesn't F*# the SC thing up. Tesla really needs a real communications director that will stop them from doing stupid sh!t like this. In some places they went up 100% on SC. Others, like mine (California), they went up 30%. You have to be more sensitive to how this goes over, particularly when you are trying to win the WORLD over to your side of thinking that EV is the future that everyone ought to be on. Last time I checked, EV sales where still about 1% of auto sales. Do you really want people worried that someone might change the cost of their "fuel" by 30% or 100% overnight? And somehow the statement that "it's still cheaper than gas in most cases" is supposed it help? Look, if gasoline cost me $3.00 per gallon on Sunday and $6.00 per gallon on Monday, you better believe I'd be PISSED OFF. So, why does Tesla do this to themselves? Ironically, whether the price of a kWh is $0.12 or $0.25, how long does it take for a SC to pay itself off or break even? I really don't even know how you'd calculate that since their existence has huge value to Telsa's sales. Even if they charged $1.00/kWh how long to get an ROI for Tesla? My point is, Telsa should be more strategic with these decisions and have a someone talented enough to recognize the need to message this correctly. Maybe you have to raise it $0.05 every six months until you've got it were it needs to be, but 100% overnight? Self-inflicted stupidity.
This was my earlier point made even clearer. Tesla REALLY needs to learn how to communicate with their customers and understand them better. This may appear as whining to some, and I actually agree that supercharging should be net even in terms of cost/return. HOWEVER, the world is a changing. With the advent of urban chargers it is COMPLETELY EXPECTED that some owners will be dependent on urban chargers for a significant portion of time. Again, forget the long distance for a minute... 3 owners do not necessarily have the at home charging infrastructure and a lot of condos and apartments do not either. Tesla knows and expects this - this is why urban chargers exist. Ok, so now we have the situation where, empirically Tesla had changed the fuel cost (arbitrarily and without notice) by 30-120% overnight. That is NOT OK. I / we may be tolerant and expect nothing better, though Tesla have to hold themselves’ to a higher standard of communication. Enough with the amateur hour and relying on Service Centers and customer-evangelists to correct perceptions here. That’s the point: LEARN HOW TO RESPECT AND COMMUNICATE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS. It costs nearly nothing and is invaluable.

This is if you are ONLY using the supercharger network to charge. NO ONE should be using the network as their main charging option. If I trade in my 2013 Hyundai Elantra that I spend $55/mo on for gas, it will cost me $11 a month to charge at home for the same amount of miles in the 3. I am also going to argue that if I took a roadtrip from Seattle to Prosser and back, it would still be cheaper to drive the model 3 using the supercharger network than paying for gas in the Elantra. That one would be close though and I didn’t do the math. The trip is 382 miles round trip. My guess would be < $25 for the charging and the Elantra would take an entire tank or slightly more at $25 a tank.
See earlier point. This is not just about supercharging fir long distance travel. This is about how to communicate to a new type of user.
 
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For a person that may do a lot of road trips, a hybrid plug in vehicle may be a better option for a one vehicle family. This would allow home charging for home trips and lower gas prices than Tesla's Supercharging network for the road trips.

Travelling in one of the most technologically advanced and safest car* ever made in style is of zero consideration?




*Yes, there are no official crash test ratings but I'll blindly choose a Model 3 to take any collision on over a Volvo from faith in past designs.