Supercharger Pricing Map?

[jwharnish]

It's no longer cheaper than gas, though. I think that's the point that's trying to be made.

Assuming you can drive a modest 35 miles in a gallon, that means it costs you $6 per 35 miles, at the current modest price of $6/gal in CA.
To drive the same 35 miles in a Model Y, it needs 11.66 kWh (assuming 3 mi/kWh at highway speeds). 11.66 kWh at $0.59/kWh is $6.88 to drive the same 35 miles.

Using your example I see your point.
I recently drove my M3P to my condo in Rocky Point, Mx. I left with 100% charge, charged in Gila Bend, Az for around 10$. That got me to Rocky Point. At the condo we have 2 Tesla chargers, free for Owners and renters. Returned with same stop and charge cost. 600 miles/$20.
Drove Wife's Prius on same trip and spent $60 for same trip. Also did that in my F-150, for $170.
Key of course is Solar at home so free to charge, free charging at Resort.
So for me cheaper than gas. Granted this trip and my situation may be different than most.
Leaving on a cross country trip Sunday. Staying at charging hotels, and while back east, have charging available free.
Last time I did this, total cost for the 6k trip was about $200 in charging. Again cheaper than gas.
$.59/kWh Ca rates. My cross country trip averages around .35/kWh rate. Just took at look at that with my upcoming stops. Higher than last trip, so maybe $300 for the 6k this time. Still cheaper than gas.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Modest 35 mpg? on the highway? Same size car as a Model 3 or Y?
Solar at home is free? Tell me more...

 

[kishkaru]

Modest 35 mpg? on the highway? Same size car as a Model 3 or Y?

Rav4 is 27/35/30 city/highway/combined
Rav4 hybrid is 41/38/40 city/highway/combined

https://www.toyota.com/rav4/features/mpg_other_price/4430/4435/4440

 

[Feathermerchan]

EPA ratings sure. What do they get at 70mph?

 

[jwharnish]

Modest 35 mpg? on the highway? Same size car as a Model 3 or Y?
Solar at home is free? Tell me more...

My Prius get's an average 50mpg ever since I had it. 120k now. So using 35mpg may be modest.

Solar at home installed 11.5 years ago. Cost 30k. Local utility covered 50% of cost, and I received another 20% off thru fed and state credits. Net cost was 9K. Payback was 6 years. So my electric needs have been free after the payback period, which is now approaching 6 years.
Live in Az so Solar is a no brainer.

 

[tivoboy]

And just in time for another 20% increase in base SC rates.. ugh. If naty gas pricing goes down, do we think Tesla will ever LOWER rates again?

 

[bradtem]

My lifetime model 3 is 248 wh/mile so that's better than most report. (It's been about 258 since I changed the tires though.) But yes, a Prius can do 50mpg. It's not as nice a car but there are nice hybrids that deliver 35mpg or more. If you can get it (you can't) the Rav4 Prime is quite attractive. 40 miles on battery, so you do most of your city driving on electricity from home, but the range/access of gasoline on road trips. (And I've done 5,000 mile road trips in my model 3, I know it can be done, but I won't pretend it doesn't come with lots of planning and other compromises compared to gasoline.)

But at these supercharger prices, saving money is no longer one of the benefits for those visits to the supercharger. The key is of course to not use superchargers as much. Step 1 is "free" charging at hotels. (You may have to pay a bit more for the hotel with charging.) And, if there happens to be free/cheap level 2 where you are parking, use it of course, but don't go nuts out of your way. Of course if your trip is to a destination with home charging, great.

Perversely, the other way to save money now is with a CCS or CdM adapter. Many superchargers now cost more, even quite a bit more. Of course, CdM is only 50kw, but that has not been an issue when I'm doing a sit-down meal, or doing it near a hotel.

 

[Feathermerchan]

It is misleading to quote plug-in hybrid MPG when you don't include the cost of charging. The exception could be when on a long trip where you cannot charge so you're all gas.

 

[bradtem]

It is misleading to quote plug-in hybrid MPG when you don't include the cost of charging. The exception could be when on a long trip where you cannot charge so you're all gas.

I didn't see somebody quote an MPG for a plug in hybrid. Of course, they are special animals. They tend to be mostly electric around town, and almost all hybrid when on a road trip. Their MPG should be for the latter part, though it's usually pretty decent.

 

[dgpcolorado]

My lifetime model 3 is 248 wh/mile so that's better than most report. (It's been about 258 since I changed the tires though.) But yes, a Prius can do 50mpg. It's not as nice a car but there are nice hybrids that deliver 35mpg or more. If you can get it (you can't) the Rav4 Prime is quite attractive. 40 miles on battery, so you do most of your city driving on electricity from home, but the range/access of gasoline on road trips. (And I've done 5,000 mile road trips in my model 3, I know it can be done, but I won't pretend it doesn't come with lots of planning and other compromises compared to gasoline.)

But at these supercharger prices, saving money is no longer one of the benefits for those visits to the supercharger. The key is of course to not use superchargers as much. Step 1 is "free" charging at hotels. (You may have to pay a bit more for the hotel with charging.) And, if there happens to be free/cheap level 2 where you are parking, use it of course, but don't go nuts out of your way. Of course if your trip is to a destination with home charging, great.

Perversely, the other way to save money now is with a CCS or CdM adapter. Many superchargers now cost more, even quite a bit more. Of course, CdM is only 50kw, but that has not been an issue when I'm doing a sit-down meal, or doing it near a hotel.

My last 90,000 miles have averaged 266 Wh/mile in my S-60, so your numbers seem high to me, given that the Model 3 is so much more efficient than my old 2014 Model S. Perhaps you do mostly high speed driving?

I realize that I am an outlier, but I usually make my overnight stops at campgrounds with RV pedestals to charge overnight. (I particularly like state park campgrounds because they are nicer and cheaper than commercial RV parks — I have camped at state parks in twelve states, thus far.) Cheaper than hotels and I start out the next day with a full battery, same as any other destination charging.

As noted by others above, Tesla has been rapidly raising prices recently. I saw changes in pricing on the outbound and homebound legs of a road trip last month:

7 May 2022
Grand Junction CO, 40¢/kWh
Green River UT, 40¢/kWh
Price UT, 40¢/kWh
Tremonton UT, 40¢/kWh
Burley ID, 20¢/kWh

8 May 2022
Boise ID, 33¢/kWh
Ontario OR, 42¢/kWh

16 May 2022
Ontario OR, 47¢/kWh
Boise ID, 34¢/kWh
Burley ID, 25¢/kWh
Tremonton UT, 44¢/kWh

17 May 2022
Price UT, 44¢/kWh
Green River UT, 44¢/kWh
Grand Junction CO, 43¢/kWh

Every station I visited twice — from eight to ten days apart — went up by one to five cents per kWh!

47¢/kWh is the highest I've seen so far: Aberdeen WA, North Bend WA, Ontario OR.

(I'm glad I have FUSC and don't have to worry about paying for Supercharging.)

 

[threeputts]

And just in time for another 20% increase in base SC rates.. ugh. If naty gas pricing goes down, do we think Tesla will ever LOWER rates again?

And what is the justification for this? Tesla at one point stated superchargers would not be profit centers - have they abandonded that philosophy? I don't think electric rates have gone up yet have they? Is it to cover maintenance and new installs?

 

[tivoboy]

And what is the justification for this? Tesla at one point stated superchargers would not be profit centers - have they abandonded that philosophy? I don't think electric rates have gone up yet have they? Is it to cover maintenance and new installs?

Well base rates around here at least (whole Bay Area and local areas in CA) went up 20% about 2-3 weeks ago.

 

[threeputts]

So I'm planning a road trip out East at the end of the month. This trip will eventually reach the northern end of Nova Scotia where there are no nearby superchargers. Not wanting to rely on level 2 charging I bit the bullet and ordered a CCS1 adapter from Korea for $309, figuring it may come in handy for other future road trips as well.

Now I think I will try to use it in some cases even when there are Tesla SC's available. My frst planned charge stop will be in Tomah, IA. There is a level 3 SC there with a by the minute pay structure based on kW:
> 180 1.15
100-180 .72
60-100 .44
< 60 .22

But right accross the street less than 100 yards away there are 4 Electrify America DC stations that charge .32/min for > 90 kW and .16 for < 90.
Not knowing exactly what the charge curve is going to look like I can't predict exactly what the price difference is going to be but it's safe to say the EA stations will be much less. For a $4 monthly fee you can drop those rates to .24 and .12.

Another planned stop is the Wyandot service plaza on the Ohio turnpike. Tesla SC there is .42/Kwh, EA is .43 but with that $4 "pass plus member" fee the rate drops to .31. Put in 37Kwh (about 50% of the battery in our LR MY) and the price difference covers the fee in one stop.

One interesting option is what to do in Erie PA. Tesla is .35/kWh but EA (according to their web site) is by the minute at .32/.16 or .24/.12 just like the Tomah structure.

Cheektowgawa NY SC is .46, EA is .43 or .31. Same in Albany.

I know using EA is more cumbersome than the simple "plug it in and it just works" SCs. Maybe they will end up being slower or a PITA to use and not worth saving a few $ per stop, maybe not.

 

[mociaf9]

One interesting option is what to do in Erie PA. Tesla is .35/kWh but EA (according to their web site) is by the minute at .32/.16 or .24/.12 just like the Tomah structure.

There's some debate about exactly how EA pricing tiers actually work and I've never seen it cleared up to my satisfaction. But basically, it's not clear that they work like Tesla's tiers do, where you will pay each tier's price as your charging slows down into that tier, i.e. for the time that you're charging 100kW-180kW you pay that rate and once your charging power drops below 100kW you pay the next lower rate, etc. I believe that for EA you pay whichever rate corresponds to the maximum power drawn during the charging session, i.e. if your car charges over 90kW for any of the session you pay the top rate for the full session. The other interpretation of EA's statements that I've seen is that regardless of what power is actually output, if your car is capable of charging at the higher power, then you'll pay the top rate. I personally don't see how that last possibility is a reasonable choice for EA to have made, but neither am I willing to give them any benefit of the doubt.

So, not knowing exactly how their rate structure works, it's hard to give direct comparisons. But I'll list the charging power you need to be above for the EA rate to be cheaper than Tesla's $0.35/kWh. If it's dynamic pricing tiers based on actual charging power, then you only need to pay attention to the bottom tier because parity for the higher tier occurs below 90kW.

EA Price Tier​	Charging Power at which it has price parity to Tesla's $0.35/kWh​
$0.32/min​	55kW​
$0.16/min​	28kW​
Pass+: $0.24/min​	41kW​
Pass+: $0.12/min​	21kW​

If you're interested, the formula to figure this out for any combination of pricing when you're comparing a per minute to a per kWh price is:

(per-minute price / per-kWh price) * 60 = Charging power that gives price parity (in kW)

 

[RTPEV]

This is not actually helpful in solving this mystery (mainly because our ID.4 is on a 3-year free charging plan, so I don't have actual billing information with dollars charged to help figure it out--maybe someone else can provide that?), but here is a sample "invoice" that shows some data from a charging session:

So they do go to the trouble of listing the "Max. charging speed". Although that number is BS, for several reasons. In this particular session, it listed it as 153.8 kW, but in most of the other sessions it listed it as 175 kW, yet the vehicle actually only has a max charging speed of 125 kW, so I find it strange that the car would report a max speed of 175 kW. It doesn't really matter since the tier appears to switch at 90kW, so whether it's 125, 153.8, or 175 wouldn't make a difference anyway.

Here is another snippet from the app which gives slightly more information than the website does, and does appear to strengthen the case that EA does in fact set the tier at the beginning of the session and it remains fixed for the duration:

It seems like their approach is to divide the EV community into two groups: Bolts, i3s & Older LEAFs, Hyundais and Kias vs. all other EVs, and the concept of tiered per minute pricing isn't really tiered at all.

 

[mociaf9]

Here is another snippet from the app which gives slightly more information than the website does, and does appear to strengthen the case that EA does in fact set the tier at the beginning of the session and it remains fixed for the duration:

View attachment 814971

It seems like their approach is to divide the EV community into two groups: Bolts, i3s & Older LEAFs, Hyundais and Kias vs. all other EVs, and the concept of tiered per minute pricing isn't really tiered at all.

Since this discussion of EA pricing is off topic for this thread, I replied in the general EA discussion thread (quoting the relevant prior comments in my new one). Further discussion should be done there: Electrify America general discussion

 

[ElectricNerd]

Rav4 is 27/35/30 city/highway/combined
Rav4 hybrid is 41/38/40 city/highway/combined

https://www.toyota.com/rav4/features/mpg_other_price/4430/4435/4440

Our other vehicle is a Rav4 Hybrid. I filled the tank at 1/4 left and it still cost me $43, and this was a week and a half ago so today it would cost me even more. That 3/4 of a tank is approx 350ish miles.

 

[threeputts]

Just rereading this thread. In case I confused anyone Tomah is in Wisconsin, not Iowa

 

[dipper]

We "early adopters" still get the cheapest electricity. So glad to pay for it up front.

 

[Sziehr]

So the rate increases are out of hand. There is communication from Tesla about them, it is not transparent as to why it just is. We all sit here and guest but no real hard evidence on why. So Tesla needs to do a better job of telling us why we are going up in price and what to expect and when. I got an EV to remove this sort of constant yo yo from my driving experince. Also they have now made it cheaper to drive a GTI when gas back down to 3.25 and it will eventually than stop at supercharger. This is again something they said they would never do which is gas price parity. Elon need to look at it but who knows if any one can get his attention to fix the rate flux we are seeing.