Supercharger - San Juan Capistrano, CA (7 V2 stalls)

[tonygod]

I stopped in this morning to charge and as I returned to the car to leave I saw this:

It was a brand new black Model S being put on the flatbed. I (somewhat rudely I think) walked up and asked what happened while the tow truck driver was talking to the owners. It turns out the car would not charge.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I stopped in this morning to charge and as I returned to the car to leave I saw this:

View attachment 52180

It was a brand new black Model S being put on the flatbed. I (somewhat rudely I think) walked up and asked what happened while the tow truck driver was talking to the owners. It turns out the car would not charge.

It could be a 60kWh without Supercharger enabled???

 

[brianman]

It could be a 60kWh without Supercharger enabled???

Assuming that's the case for a moment...

I think it's in Tesla's best interest (PR wise and customer experience) to allow for, say, a $10 fee for a one-time supercharge for those that haven't bought the "subscription". It would serve as both a teaser for the supercharge experience and a tow avoidance lifesaver for those that are surprised the first time they try to supercharge without having paid the piper.

 

[Cottonwood]

Assuming that's the case for a moment...

I think it's in Tesla's best interest (PR wise and customer experience) to allow for, say, a $10 fee for a one-time supercharge for those that haven't bought the "subscription". It would serve as both a teaser for the supercharge experience and a tow avoidance lifesaver for those that are surprised the first time they try to supercharge without having paid the piper.

I've heard of a few cases where a 60 owner shows up at a Supercharger, needing a charge and not knowing that they can't get it. In every one of those cases, Tesla has enabled a "one time" Supercharge to help them out at no cost to the owner; all they had to do was call.

I'm guessing there was something more than Supercharge Enable going on.

 

[GoBlue88]

Whoever it is already had the front license plate mount installed. Bummer.

 

[apacheguy]

I've heard of a few cases where a 60 owner shows up at a Supercharger, needing a charge and not knowing that they can't get it. In every one of those cases, Tesla has enabled a "one time" Supercharge to help them out at no cost to the owner; all they had to do was call.

Huh, I always thought a software update was required to enable supercharging. If it is as easy as you make it out to be to enable one time access then the setting likely lies in some config file which would make it trivial to hack if anyone put their mind to it. I would've expected them to hard code the supercharging "brains" into the firmware. Wonder if there is a similar setting to turn 40 kW into 60 kW.

 

[FredTMC]

I stopped in this morning to charge and as I returned to the car to leave I saw this:

View attachment 52180

It was a brand new black Model S being put on the flatbed. I (somewhat rudely I think) walked up and asked what happened while the tow truck driver was talking to the owners. It turns out the car would not charge.

i was was there yesterday and I talked to the owners of this car briefly after they asked for help. I witnessed them trying different stalls. The car isn't brand new. It's got 28k mi. It's got new plates, It seems to me they are new owners. Not overly knowledgable about the car. I suggested they call tesla for help.

 

[David99]

Huh, I always thought a software update was required to enable supercharging. If it is as easy as you make it out to be to enable one time access then the setting likely lies in some config file which would make it trivial to hack if anyone put their mind to it. I would've expected them to hard code the supercharging "brains" into the firmware. Wonder if there is a similar setting to turn 40 kW into 60 kW.

Yes it's probably just a config file. They already said all cars are Supercharger capable (in terms of hardware) and can be enabled later. The 40 kWh version is clearly a software limitation as well. They never made actual 40 kWh batteries because of so few orders.
But in either case I'm sure it's not just a matter of finding and changing a setting. Tesla has constant connection to all cars and they would definitely notice someone hacking a software configuration.

Wouldn't it be great if a normal 85 could be upgraded via software to be a P85. I doubt it works, though. I think they actually do use different hardware. Same motor, but different inverter.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The Supercharger enable is most likely a Supercharger software update (the car's VIN is enabled for charging at the Supercharger side), and not a car issue. I suspect the car is fully able, willing and ready, dutifully sending the VIN to the Supercharger only to be rejected if the fee isn't paid.

 

[apacheguy]

The Supercharger enable is most likely a Supercharger software update (the car's VIN is enabled for charging at the Supercharger side), and not a car issue. I suspect the car is fully able, willing and ready, dutifully sending the VIN to the Supercharger only to be rejected if the fee isn't paid.

So you think that each supercharging site maintains a database of VINs and relies on each car to pass a VIN during the handshake? Well in that case you could spoof a VIN, but aside from that I must say that's extremely unlikely. What of the new cars coming off the line? Does it sync with a corporate database every night? It sounds extremely complicated. I think the setting lies on the car side, just as it does for 40 kW cars.

 

[markb1]

So you think that each supercharging site maintains a database of VINs and relies on each car to pass a VIN during the handshake? Well in that case you could spoof a VIN, but aside from that I must say that's extremely unlikely. What of the new cars coming off the line? Does it sync with a corporate database every night? It sounds extremely complicated. I think the setting lies on the car side, just as it does for 40 kW cars.

Well, the superchargers are all connected to the mothership, as evidenced by the supercharger dashboard in the lobby at Hawthorne. But it seems like a better design would be to have this configured in the car, so it still works even if there's a connectivity issue between the supercharger and Tesla headquarters. They can still audit the supercharger logs, and see if anyone is cheating, but they don't need to do this in real time.

But I do think it a config file on the car side, not a completely separate build. There are other ways to make it difficult to hack than making multiple parallel builds. (As a software engineer, maintaining multiple parallel builds gives me nightmares!)

 

[miimura]

So you think that each supercharging site maintains a database of VINs and relies on each car to pass a VIN during the handshake? Well in that case you could spoof a VIN, but aside from that I must say that's extremely unlikely. What of the new cars coming off the line? Does it sync with a corporate database every night? It sounds extremely complicated. I think the setting lies on the car side, just as it does for 40 kW cars.

The Superchargers have a 3G data connection. It is possible that they validate the VIN with the master server for each charging session initiation.

 

[apacheguy]

But I do think it a config file on the car side, not a completely separate build. There are other ways to make it difficult to hack than making multiple parallel builds. (As a software engineer, maintaining multiple parallel builds gives me nightmares!)

I'm not a software engineer but the way I had envisioned implementing supercharging capability was something like how hardware drivers work on computers. No need for parallel builds. You either have the driver installed, which contains the supercharging "brains", or you don't. That's why I thought TM would have to push an OTA update in order to enable that capability. This method is significantly more difficult to hack than a config file reading:

options {
..
supercharger:"0"
}

But if TM can enable one time supercharger access it seems to support the config file theory as pushing an OTA update while the customer is on the phone and pushing a second one after the supercharge session would be to cumbersome (but more secure, IMO).

 

[brianman]

I find it amusing that people are already critiquing Tesla's implementation based on their guesses of how it works from black box analysis of 3rd party reports of supposed supercharging events.

 

[miimura]

I find it amusing that people are already critiquing Tesla's implementation based on their guesses of how it works from black box analysis of 3rd party reports of supposed supercharging events.

Isn't that what forums are for?

 

[Cottonwood]

Yes it's probably just a config file. They already said all cars are Supercharger capable (in terms of hardware) and can be enabled later. The 40 kWh version is clearly a software limitation as well. They never made actual 40 kWh batteries because of so few orders.
But in either case I'm sure it's not just a matter of finding and changing a setting. Tesla has constant connection to all cars and they would definitely notice someone hacking a software configuration.

Wouldn't it be great if a normal 85 could be upgraded via software to be a P85. I doubt it works, though. I think they actually do use different hardware. Same motor, but different inverter.

The maintenance, "Car Configuration" page has an item called "Fast Chg Allowed:" In my car, that is set to "true" I don't know if that is an enabling item or just for info, but it is there.

There is also an item, "Fast Chg Installed:" which is also "true" in my car.

 

[apacheguy]

The maintenance, "Car Configuration" page has an item called "Fast Chg Allowed:" In my car, that is set to "true" I don't know if that is an enabling item or just for info, but it is there.

There is also an item, "Fast Chg Installed:" which is also "true" in my car.

Yep, that's what I expected. How did you get beyond the password dialogue? Did service forget to reboot the screens after they were done?

 

[Cottonwood]

Yep, that's what I expected. How did you get beyond the password dialogue? Did service forget to reboot the screens after they were done?

While service was at my house working on my car, I poked around the screens. The screens go away as soon as the connection from the Tesla PC to the MS, onboard ethernet goes away. To forget to leave the screens up, they have to forget their PC and leave your car partially disassembled.

 

[apacheguy]

While service was at my house working on my car, I poked around the screens. The screens go away as soon as the connection from the Tesla PC to the MS, onboard ethernet goes away. To forget to leave the screens up, they have to forget their PC and leave your car partially disassembled.

Interesting. That must have changed since I first got the car. It used to be accessed through a screen that stated: "Please Enter Access Code." Perhaps there are multiple entrances to the diagnostic screens?

 

[David99]

Since there is a lot of discussion about what signage should be at superchargers. I'm in San Juan Capistrano and the signs have been removed entirely except for three stalls where it still says 30 min Union Bank or Tesla charging.