Supercharger - Santa Ana, CA (12 V2 stalls)

[RubberToe]

All of that said, Orange County has the highest number of Tesla owners and has been woefully under-planned/under-served since day 1.

Except it's not hearsay. And questioning it doesn't make it any less true. You or anyone else want to disprove it? Go ahead. My sources are good. And I don't need to publish another article to prove that. Makes less than no difference to me how that's received. The end...

Um, not The End...

Orange County does not have the highest number of Tesla owners.

Teslas registered in California: 25,120
L.A. County: 6,939
Orange County: 3,630

Source is California CVRP Rebate statistics:
CVRP Rebate Statistics

Now if you want to argue that the Tesla owners in Orange County are so affluent that there are another 3,000+ who didn't bother to file for the $2,500 rebate, then you might have some ground to stand on. Shaky ground, possibly quick sand, but better than the pseudo facts you are throwing around now

RT

 

[rxlawdude]

Having 12 SpCs here and 8 at Buena Park will def ease the load on the OC SpCs.

San Diego needs one in North County, and SJC really needs to be 12-18 stalls as its such a great place to supercharge

There would have been a lot better location for the SJC SC, because it sucks getting to and from I-5, especially during tourist season.
Camino Capistrano south of downtown SJC would be a much better location and would allow more stalls. There may be fewer places to eat, but it seems to me this SC really needs as little as possible to take owners too far from their charging vehicles.

 

[rxlawdude]

So I went by a couple times this week. A fence went up about a week ago at the spot I thought most likely in late May, but it was hard to tell.

View attachment 189013

The I noticed trenching inside the enclosure, about 10 feet out from the curb. It was a very long enclosure, suggesting that if this was going to be a supercharger installation it was going to consist of 8 or more spaces.

View attachment 189015

Then today I came back and saw a lot more material inside the enclosure. A large shipment from Tesla had indeed arrived.

View attachment 189016
There stood crates containing Supercharger units, six of them. This is going to be a 12-spot installation, and things are moving fast. From the location of the trenches I suspect they will be nose-in spots, which should make things easy for Modal X owners with bike racks sticking out of their trailer hitches.

Dan

Thanks for the update and pics. That indeed looks like Ground Zero for the SC.

 

[jimmy_d]

I'm curious about what people think the use case is for these mid-city chargers. With the range that a Tesla has you wouldn't expect it to be limiting to a commuter to not have an SC on your daily commute. And if you're driving across LA there are chargers entering and exiting the greater LA area on all sides. It's not like LA is big enough that you can't get across it on a charge pretty easily. And there's the downside that mid-city chargers are a lot more likely to see heavy use by locals and thus not be able to serve long distance travelers anyway. Of course, more chargers is great and locating chargers near people with cars is broadly useful, but if you've got still got unserved long distance corridors then I would think it was a low priority.

Is the intention to provide charging for apartment dwellers or visitors to the city that can't charge at their home or hotel? Or is this a side effect of traffic being bad and making relatively small detours to an SC a big pain?

 

[eyespii]

I'm curious about what people think the use case is for these mid-city chargers. With the range that a Tesla has you wouldn't expect it to be limiting to a commuter to not have an SC on your daily commute. And if you're driving across LA there are chargers entering and exiting the greater LA area on all sides. It's not like LA is big enough that you can't get across it on a charge pretty easily. And there's the downside that mid-city chargers are a lot more likely to see heavy use by locals and thus not be able to serve long distance travelers anyway. Of course, more chargers is great and locating chargers near people with cars is broadly useful, but if you've got still got unserved long distance corridors then I would think it was a low priority.

Is the intention to provide charging for apartment dwellers or visitors to the city that can't charge at their home or hotel? Or is this a side effect of traffic being bad and making relatively small detours to an SC a big pain?

I think it's just cause the greater LA area has so much sprawl. It's not uncommon for some people to drive 75-100 miles each way for work. In my case, I live in the OC, and commute about ~50 miles into riverside for work. Occasionally, I'll need to head to downtown LA or to LAX afterwards, and that's maybe 80 miles. To get home from there, add another 50 miles. So that's 180 real-world miles, which if you had an S60, would be cutting it really close.

 

[rxlawdude]

I'm curious about what people think the use case is for these mid-city chargers. With the range that a Tesla has you wouldn't expect it to be limiting to a commuter to not have an SC on your daily commute. And if you're driving across LA there are chargers entering and exiting the greater LA area on all sides. It's not like LA is big enough that you can't get across it on a charge pretty easily. And there's the downside that mid-city chargers are a lot more likely to see heavy use by locals and thus not be able to serve long distance travelers anyway. Of course, more chargers is great and locating chargers near people with cars is broadly useful, but if you've got still got unserved long distance corridors then I would think it was a low priority.

Is the intention to provide charging for apartment dwellers or visitors to the city that can't charge at their home or hotel? Or is this a side effect of traffic being bad and making relatively small detours to an SC a big pain?

Well, if you look at the freeway system in SoCal, the I-5/CA-57/CA-22 interchange makes a great deal of sense. What doesn't make sense is the locations of the San Diego and SJC SCs. But eyespii said it best - lots of opportunity to drive 250 miles in a day just commuting and doing side trips.

 

[David99]

I live and work in LA and OC and drive an average of 120 miles every day. On some days I drive more than the car does on a full charge. That's when I need to charge somewhere. Unless a L2 charger is right where I need to park my car, they are pretty much useless. The time wasted to walk back and forth to where i have to be and the little power they provide makes them not very useful to me. If I have to charge I much rather plan a break at a Supercharger and get a good amount of miles back in just 20 min. It's really the only valid alternative.
There is a lot of people driving a lot of miles around LA and OC and eventually they need to top off. Long distance traveling isn't just a long distance in one direction, it can be a lot of driving in one area. And since there are almost 11,000 Model S in LA and OC it's really OK to have lots of Superchargers here.
Even if you just drive 160 miles a day. Maybe you don't want to do a 100% charge every day, maybe you don't want to arrive with only 45 miles left at the end of the day because there is the odd chance you might need your car for another errand or the wife needs it or whatever. It's perfectly reasonable to top off here and there to always have plenty of charge to be prepared. It's too easy to demonize all local people using Superchargers.

 

[TaoJones]

Ain't that the truth. Lots of armchair garden implement-waving folk hereabouts, without much practical awareness.

Fortunately Elon & Co saw this coming long ago and will continue to support density along with distance.

What he didn't say at the time was that the pie was still the same size, so progress when that first started was effectively halved for each, but it all worked out in the end.

People don't like SoCal anyway. Too much perfect weather and lack of humidity or bugs, relatively speaking.

 

[4SUPER9]

Even if you just drive 160 miles a day. Maybe you don't want to do a 100% charge every day, maybe you don't want to arrive with only 45 miles left at the end of the day because there is the odd chance you might need your car for another errand or the wife needs it or whatever. It's perfectly reasonable to top off here and there to always have plenty of charge to be prepared. It's too easy to demonize all local people using Superchargers.

That's pretty much my situation, though fairly rare. I have no issue arriving home with few miles remaining, but given that I have little kids and other things, I could suddenly have to run off somewhere. Low range remaining does not seem safe. So, I occasionally stop off at Redondo or Culver City, and only for 10 minutes. I wish I could grab a quick one at FV, but won't even bother getting off the freeway there anymore, unless it's for Costco, and I won't charge there even then, given the stress it puts on the system.

 

[miimura]

Um, not The End...

Orange County does not have the highest number of Tesla owners.

Teslas registered in California: 25,120
L.A. County: 6,939
Orange County: 3,630

Source is California CVRP Rebate statistics:
CVRP Rebate Statistics

Now if you want to argue that the Tesla owners in Orange County are so affluent that there are another 3,000+ who didn't bother to file for the $2,500 rebate, then you might have some ground to stand on. Shaky ground, possibly quick sand, but better than the pseudo facts you are throwing around now

RT

My gut feeling that Santa Clara County has a lot of Teslas apparently has merit too. The CVRP data shows 3,637 rebates issued for Tesla vehicles after June 1, 2012. The total figure since March 2010 is 3,669. The additional 32 vehicles are presumably Roadsters.

 

[Sarcarean]

When I hear the argument that Tesla never intended SC to be used by locals and only for "long distance", then why does Hong Kong have 13? (Its only 30 miles across! And no, a HK plate does not allow you access to mainland). The reason is because in HK parking spaces have titles and are often located underground without access to any power sources. But that same reasoning can apply to any major city in USA. I have been to many "luxury condos" in San Diego that you simply can not install a charger.

 

[* Powered]

David99 hit the nail on the head. There are cheap people everywhere and there will always be people refusing or seldom charging at home when they need to.

For people like us who BOUGHT a 100% long range EV BECAUSE we drive between the OC - LA - and SD ... the superchargers are critical. They are not just for long distance driving. My business interest can have me driving to Long Beach in the am and then Escondido midday while originating in Newport Beach...over 220 - 250 miles .....

My MXP90D at max charge of about 250 miles of range is only about 200 real world and lets face it....NO ONE likes driving with less than 25 miles of range indicated by the car. I use auto pilot set at 70-72 mph generally.

There is no room for that trip to the gym at night or if the wife has the second car.....The whole purpose of the car is to travel luxuriously while not adding to the noise and pollution of ICE cars. We all do our small part. I also have almost 8kw of solar generation at my house so outside of August and September when the ac is running big time, I can run my house and charge my car for free. Yet I still use SC because of the range limitations on busy days.

Charging more for SC usage initially or $1 every 10 minutes plugged in would be cost effective for all of us and would help eliminate the users of the system it is not intended for, Let's face it....20-30 minutes is usually all anyone needs to top off unless they are driving long distance or to another state.

It would also be beneficial for those of us who use the 405 AND the 5 freeway corridors to have more SC's on the 5 as it should reduce the burden at SJC. I have to stop at SJC to charge but this SC being built here will cut out 50% of my stops at SJC.

 

[jimmy_d]

When I hear the argument that Tesla never intended SC to be used by locals and only for "long distance", then why does Hong Kong have 13? (Its only 30 miles across! And no, a HK plate does not allow you access to mainland). The reason is because in HK parking spaces have titles and are often located underground without access to any power sources. But that same reasoning can apply to any major city in USA. I have been to many "luxury condos" in San Diego that you simply can not install a charger.

Did not mean to suggest that locals should not use SC. I've seen that suggested too and I don't agree with the sentiment. Eventually, and probably not too long from now, there are going to be very large numbers of people buying Tesla's that can't charge at home for all kinds of reasons. Those people are going to benefit a lot from local SCs. I was thinking about how the priority tradeoff between supporting the needs of large numbers of people who have access to public L2 chargers but would really prefer to have faster charging versus smaller numbers of people who live in places where just traveling away from home is hard because there are no SC's available for their long distance needs. The latter benefits fewer people, but it has a big impact on those few, and building those chargers is relatively cheap and easy because they can be smaller and are located in low density areas. The former affects many more people, but it's a much harder problem to solve because density can work against you in getting access to good locations for chargers.

In the long run the solution is probably a combination of large numbers of L2 and L2+ chargers combined with strategically located SC's (probably super SC's that are 2 or 5 times faster than current SC's). Wondering what all of this looks like when there are 10x as many Tesla's on the road, which will probably happen by 2020.

 

[* Powered]

Yes you are absolutely right. Was not responding to you per se but the general sentiment that comes across sometimes at these boards....I believe as you do there should definitely be more lower level chargers installed everywhere.....If I could top off during lunch meetings someplace then I could skip SC's completely.

This is a link on SCE taking steps to bring electric for chargers in condos and apartments etc....

SoCal Edison to install 1,500 electric-car charging sites; what's your electric utility doing?

There are companies that are not here yet that are looking at putting in chargers set up like gas stations.....Would be nice to have "free" SC's and multiple paid locations and options.....I have not done all the math but the cost of electricity for myself results in about $10-12 for a full charge in the MX and $40-45 for fuel for my ICE car to go the same range. Both my vehicles are similar weight and size, pwer etc. That is when my solar panels are not keeping up with the AC drain....

 

[rxlawdude]

The only time I can confirm a "local" charging was in Indio. Got to the SC, there was another MS hooked up. Started charging, grabbed breakfast, and as we were getting back to the car (about 9am) a car drives up to the other MS, someone hops out, unplugs, and goes on their way.

The point is, there is no rational reason for ANYONE to leave their car in a Supercharger stall for more than 60 minutes. If "locals" abide by this rule, I don't think there's an issue. I suspect at SJC and FV, at least some of the stalls are hogged by overnight charging locals.

 

[TaoJones]

Um, not The End...

Orange County does not have the highest number of Tesla owners.

Teslas registered in California: 25,120
L.A. County: 6,939
Orange County: 3,630

Source is California CVRP Rebate statistics:
CVRP Rebate Statistics

Now if you want to argue that the Tesla owners in Orange County are so affluent that there are another 3,000+ who didn't bother to file for the $2,500 rebate, then you might have some ground to stand on. Shaky ground, possibly quick sand, but better than the pseudo facts you are throwing around now

RT

Well, isn't that speshul. (Church lady voice)

While there are indeed some who didn't apply for the rebate for a number of reasons, the larger reason why your conclusion is:

A) flawed
B) inconclusive
C) a big fat fail
D) all of the above

is because it does not in any way account for, wait for it...

leasing.

And that's the short answer. There's another glaring clue in the statewide total from that data as well.

Yep. Still the end. But thanks for playing. Hey, at least you found a nice resource.

For deliberately skewing partial data into an attempt at a flawed conclusion, I award you... no points*.


*with apologies to Ben Stein.

 

[RubberToe]

Well, isn't that speshul. (Church lady voice)

While there are indeed some who didn't apply for the rebate for a number of reasons, the larger reason why your conclusion is:

A) flawed
B) inconclusive
C) a big fat fail
D) all of the above

is because it does not in any way account for, wait for it...

leasing.

And that's the short answer. There's another glaring clue in the statewide total from that data as well.

Yep. Still the end. But thanks for playing. Hey, at least you found a nice resource.

For deliberately skewing partial data into an attempt at a flawed conclusion, I award you... no points*.


*with apologies to Ben Stein.

Individuals leasing a Tesla apply for the CVRP as an individual, just like all other EV owners, and receive the rebate check directly from the state. Each rebate is shown in the spreadsheet with the county that the vehicle lessee resides in. But you already knew that, right?

 

[rxlawdude]

Here's the scene this afternoon. There's definite progress - encouraging.

The location still sucks, however.

 

[rxlawdude]

Individuals leasing a Tesla apply for the CVRP as an individual, just like all other EV owners, and receive the rebate check directly from the state. Each rebate is shown in the spreadsheet with the county that the vehicle lessee resides in. But you already knew that, right?

I think someone pissed in Tao's cornflakes. Atypical (IMO) of him to snark like that at another community member.

 

[rfmurphy81]

I wonder if they will paint the parking spaces red with a big Tesla logo like has been seen at other Superchargers. Though I'm curious whether the nose-in ones minimize ICEing more than the back-in ones.