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Supercharger - Santa Ana, CA (12 V2 stalls)
- Thread starter BlueShift
- Start date
Photo update of the site as of this afternoon.
Pad for Supercharger cabinets.
Stalls 1A and 1B
Pad for Supercharger cabinets.
Stalls 1A and 1B
rfmurphy81
Member
I'm surprised they are taking away a few parking spaces just inside the structure for some of the equipment. They are definitely moving along with this project though.
rfmurphy81
Member
Parking is generally bad around Halloween (they did a giant pumpkin festival on the southwest side of their parking lot last year) and the holiday shopping periods.
The general consensus from others on TMC are that the "pull in" (versus the "back in") stalls are less likely to be ICEd, so I guess we'll see what happens here. Hopefully the property owner doesn't make this general parking for 30 minutes (like has been seen elsewhere) and Tesla is allowed to mark that these are Tesla charging only spots, with clear signage and even painting the ground red (see Culver City location).
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
And posts the appropriate signage along with the above that states that violators will be towed. With tow company contact information.
Even better would be that parking security personnel proactively tow ICEs. No muss, no fuss, no handwringing.
For bonus points, signage indicating "Last month, 22 vehicles were towed from these spaces." would be a nice touch.
If Tesla never sited another SC at a mall, it wouldn't be too soon. The parking problems are obvious, and then the owners who think they should be entertained while SCing have nothing to do after hours. Both problems are solved by siting SCs at, for example, 24/7 fast food joints or truck stops or even, gasp, certain gas stations.
Both Culver City and Oxnard try to mitigate the parking pressure by choosing a South 40 location - which hasn't worked out all that badly for those SCs, given their mallishness.
Mallishness. Yep.
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AMPd
Well-Known Member
To a shopping mall, a customer is a customer regardless of what they drive, I highly doubt they'll ever tow a vehicle for parking in the SC spot, as long as it's not against the law to park there, not much can be done to violators
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Hence the proper signage.
The flipside to the above being that last I checked, Tesla owners can be customers too. In fact, at the Grand Opening at Culver City, right after the Tesla fellow extolled the virtues of fast charging and getting in and getting out quickly, the mall representative invited those who charged to essentially come in and set a spell. Have dinner and maybe do some shopping, yeah. A clear, uncomfortable, and decidedly awkward conflict of interest repeated at quite a few grand openings. Essentially exacerbating the problem by inadvertently encouraging ICEing by our own.
Unless and until green striped spaces (what seems to be emerging as the EV color) are given the same credence as the very liberal use of blue and red striping, excuses will continue to be made.
Put another way, if a mall doesn't care enough to ensure that charging spaces are used solely for charging, then I don't care enough to spend money there. And last I checked, Tesla owners do, for the most part, have a reasonable amount of disposable income. Hermosa Beach encourages free EV parking at commercial meters because the merchants want the business. Mall owners, if their awareness is raised, will want EV patronage to be as hassle-free as possible. It's not apples to apples.
Tow the offenders. Post the results. Raise awareness. You don't see too many people parked in red zones for a reason. Treat the (soon to be) green spaces the same way and everybody wins - including the mall owners.
It's somewhat amusing that some people are so interested in protecting a scarce resource via hinky poo-poo (pay per use) schemes that even Tesla rejects (see recent leak via which we can conclude that prepaid will be the way to go at the low end, presumably in addition to the one-time option), and yet there is less than ubiquitous interest in according green spaces the same deference as that accorded to blue and red spaces.
It's fun to think about which will go the way of the dinosaur first - malls or the act of (active) driving itself. Meanwhile, it looks like there's an opportunity to patiently educate everyone with as many different tools as possible. No harm in adding a few bucks to the local tow company owner's kids' college funds in the process.
Edit: An alternate approach would be to post a concierge at the most problematic sites to gently but firmly educate the ICEs before they even get out of their cars. I give credit to the Fred Meyer stores in Oregon with chargers - they have municipal no parking signs and "EV charging only" signs and that's it. And their managers get it and are happy to tow. One commented to me that she considered ICEing no different than parking in a handicapped space. If it works for busy Fred Meyerses, it'll work at the mall. FUDbusters they are.
A customer is a customer, and that is exactly the point of them allowing TM to take over these spots. TM sells it to them on the very idea that it will bring customers in. As far as towing goes, the law already allows for it, provided that the property owner posts the correct language. TM has not done that at any SC site to date.
callmesam
Member
This setup prevents ICEing. Some are pull through. Others are back-in. Even though it's busy, it's I've never seen a wait. Or ICEing except Christmas right after installation. I have taken many friends for a supercharger there or Hawthorne. Least desirable spots on the entire mall property.
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AMPd
Well-Known Member
You and Tao seem to have completely misunderstood what I was saying
A sign means nothing if the property owners do not enforce it, which they will not. Why would they piss off one customer to please another
@tao Disposable income? I don't understand that logic. What if an S class Mercedes parks in one of those spots? They probably have disposable income, do they get a break while a Toyota would get towed?
People don't park in the red zone because it's against STATE LAW, that's not the same as an EV charging spot. If I'm not mistaken there's no law preventing people from parking in EV only spots.
@AMPd, Ah, now I see what you are saying. You are correct. To the property owner, it is offending one customer to make room for another. They would gladly tow someone away if they were taking up a spot and visiting another establishment across the street, but that is typically not what is happening. Though, one could argue that those who leave there cars for several hours, being picked up and dropped off, are not customers, and could be towed without risk of losing business. The difficulty here is that is hard to define identify those people.
You are also correct in that there is no state law (in California) that prevents people from ICE'ing EV spots. Give it time though. At least, I hope that comes our way.
@callmesam, that Culver City set up is the best set-up in a mall yet. The few times I have used it, I have not had problems. However, stay far far away in the weeks leading up to Christmas. Even if there is a spot available, it will take you 30 minutes just to get to that area.
You are also correct in that there is no state law (in California) that prevents people from ICE'ing EV spots. Give it time though. At least, I hope that comes our way.
@callmesam, that Culver City set up is the best set-up in a mall yet. The few times I have used it, I have not had problems. However, stay far far away in the weeks leading up to Christmas. Even if there is a spot available, it will take you 30 minutes just to get to that area.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
They don't park in a red zone because they don't want a ticket or a tow.
Sign the property effectively, enforce it, and all is well. No additional laws required - although when municipalities recognize the opportunity for an additional revenue stream (see Washington's $125 fine), they'll be all over it.
As a Tesla owner, I'm not looking for anything extra. Simply deploy the correct signage and enforce it. So simple.
While Culver City turned out well, am thinking that green may prevail over red as a universal color. I know red is Elon's favorite color and it certainly is eye-catching. Maybe the intention is to leverage the restricted nature of other red-painted areas.
Either way, there are 2 problems afoot. One is ICEing, and after visiting about 150 SCs I've only seen it be a problem at a handful, and the other is ICEing by our own. And in fact, at a similarly small handful of SCs, the latter is a much worse problem than the former.
Compound the two at holiday time at those few SCs in question and it's a guaranteed mess.
The latter problem can be addressed through education and technology (see recent post-charging get out nag message). The former with ICEs? Well, again, the best solution I've seen is at Fred Meyer with standard municipal no parking signs and small rectangular signs under that that say EV charging only.
It's not asking too much for a mall to care as much about Tesla owners as other owners. After all - an SC is a competitive advantage. Put another way, if we're going to have to deal with the BS inherent with mall siting, then the least the mall owner can do is keep the spaces clear for their intended use.
Infernal 30-minute to 2-hour general parking ok signs notwithstanding. Those are just hopeless and in some cases, a necessary evil.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
If there was a law prohibiting parking in EV only spots as there is with parking in the red (FIRE) lanes, then yes people would be getting fined.
But as of right now there is no law against it, property owners can choose to tow if there are posted signs but they cannot fine the offender.
And since we're talking about a mall, no car is getting towed.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
And this is why change is harder than it has to be.
When a grocery store chain in Oregon with razor thin margins cares enough to a) host fast charging, b) sign it properly, and c) enforce it for *all* customers, then a mall in California can, and will, as well.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
I hope you're right, I too dislike ICE'ing, however I still don't think shopping malls are going to enforce those signs until the state gets involved
Woah, wait a sec those Tesla cabinets inside the structure are Tesla Energy units. That's 200KW stationary battery storage. Is this one of the first Supercharger stations augmented with stationary storage?
callmesam
Member
No. Many others including Hawthorne, Barstow and Harris Ranch have had battery backup for a while.
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