Supercharger - Seaside, OR

[Lyon]

From Taft on the PDXTesla Google group today:

"Seaside Oregon Outlet mall Supercharger opens in 2 weeks!
Just booked a hotel in the area and the hotel told me about it. I called the mall and made the girl go outside and describe what they look like to verify.
Her exact description was "So they have 8 big white things that look kinda like a clean gas pump that say Tesla at the top. Next to it is a fenced in super voltage thing that took a couple of weeks to install. They are covered in plastic to keep them clean until they open"
I didn't even see a permit pulled for it......Did I miss something? She also said one was going south along the coast but did not know for sure where."

I did some digging and it looks like Clatsop County issued a permit to JJ Electric Service on May 31, 2016 for a "Car Charging station" at the correct address.

http://www.co.clatsop.or.us/sites/d.../building_codes/page/469/permits_may_2016.pdf

Very interesting.

 

[melindav]

yay! I was hoping something would end up on the coast

 

[Rocky_H]

What the heck? When the 101 already has CHAdeMO stations in Astoria and Canon Beach, on either side of Seaside, plus several other towns along that coast? Highways 26 or 20 through Eastern Oregon are direly in need of ANY fast charging, but Tesla is duplicating Aerovironment's West Coast Electric Highway of CHAdeMO stations--great.

 

[TaoJones]

That's great news about eight different ways.

The "electric highway", while a hugely impressive achievement by AeroVironment to provide fully functional, full strength ChaDeMO at a reasonable price, is more aptly described as an electric goat path. Five or six fast chargers along the coast (and I've used every one of them from Astoria to Brookings) does not a highway make.

Very happy to see Tesla show up on the coast and hopefully they'll have SCs at all of the cities that currently have AeroVironment chargers - the more the merrier.

 

[Lyon]

What the heck? When the 101 already has CHAdeMO stations in Astoria and Canon Beach, on either side of Seaside, plus several other towns along that coast? Highways 26 or 20 through Eastern Oregon are direly in need of ANY fast charging, but Tesla is duplicating Aerovironment's West Coast Electric Highway of CHAdeMO stations--great.

The problem with the Aerovironment network is that each station has one DC connection (not to mention they require an expensive adapter to use, they're kind of finicky, and they cost $7 each time you plug in) Tesla's electrification of 101 is already underway in California. Maybe this is just a way of connecting Portland to the Coast but maybe it's the first step in electrifying the whole route. Either way it's pretty cool.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The Aerovironment network is pretty cool, and likely the best non-Tesla one I've ever used. But, you're never 100% sure before you get somewhere that it will work. You also don't know if it's even going to be available since it's usually just one port. Plus there is the whole time to charge thing.

It is somewhat of a bummer that things are taking so long for the super chargers on the northern California coast, but maybe Tesla decided to just go ahead and not wait around any longer.

 

[Rocky_H]

The "electric highway", while a hugely impressive achievement by AeroVironment to provide fully functional, full strength ChaDeMO at a reasonable price, is more aptly described as an electric goat path. Five or six fast chargers along the coast (and I've used every one of them from Astoria to Brookings) does not a highway make.

It sure does sound worse when you lie about it. It’s 44 stations (I counted) just in Oregon, not 5 or 6, as you said.

The problem with the Aerovironment network is that each station has one DC connection (not to mention they require an expensive adapter to use, they're kind of finicky, and they cost $7 each time you plug in)

Oh, each has one connection? The routes through Eastern Oregon have none.

But, you're never 100% sure before you get somewhere that it will work. You also don't know if it's even going to be available since it's usually just one port. Plus there is the whole time to charge thing.

On the routes through Eastern Oregon, you are 100% sure the fast chargers will not work, because they're not there. There isn't even one port, because...they're not there. And the time to charge is awful, since it's just 14-50 outlets or J1772s. So the coast is already WAY better covered and the need is not as great.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Interstates: None
US Numbered Highways (<= 5 miles): US-101

US-101:
From: Lincoln City, OR (Permit) - 92.4 miles
To: Centralia, WA (US-101, US-30, I-5)- 115 miles

From: Woodburn, OR (I-5, US-26, US-101) - 102 miles
From: Sandy, OR (US-26, US-101) - 107 miles

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

On the routes through Eastern Oregon, you are 100% sure the fast chargers will not work, because they're not there. There isn't even one port, because...they're not there. And the time to charge is awful, since it's just 14-50 outlets or J1772s. So the coast is already WAY better covered and the need is not as great.

Tesla is not going to rely on other "networks" when those "networks" so strongly contrast with Tesla's approach, which is high power charging with multiple stalls per site.

For the Pacific states, which have a lot of owners, US-101 was a very obvious route to cover.

I'm very confident that Tesla is not simply ignoring interior US highways, but I'm also confident that Tesla's approach is to try to complete routes, so unless there's an important destination on the way, or a lot of traffic on the interior route it's going to be a lower priority. Lower priority routes will not get built out until Tesla has more volume.

 

[Rocky_H]

Tesla is not going to rely on other "networks" when those "networks" so strongly contrast with Tesla's approach, which is high power charging with multiple stalls per site.

Not going to rely on it forever of course, but compare the two: they ARE choosing to rely on no network, with low power single stall situations in Eastern Oregon. It's like opportunity cost, where by choosing to build here in Oregon, they are choosing to not build there in Oregon.

For the Pacific states, which have a lot of owners, US-101 was a very obvious route to cover.

Eventually, yes. I think it's bad priorities for now, though.

I'm very confident that Tesla is not simply ignoring interior US highways, but I'm also confident that Tesla's approach is to try to complete routes, so unless there's an important destination on the way, or a lot of traffic on the interior route it's going to be a lower priority. Lower priority routes will not get built out until Tesla has more volume.

* complete routes
* destination on the way
Yes, it completes a route, and Bend is a common destination to and from Boise, which is currently very difficult because of no fast charging. So your argument seems to support this route as more of a priority.

 

[donv]

I think the Seaside supercharger will get a lot of use. I'm not impressed with Aerovironment, and have never considered them except in an emergency.

 

[MP3Mike]

Calling @BlueShift for a Supercharger.info update.

 

[TaoJones]

It sure does sound worse when you lie about it. It’s 44 stations (I counted) just in Oregon, not 5 or 6, as you said.



Oh, each has one connection? The routes through Eastern Oregon have none.



On the routes through Eastern Oregon, you are 100% sure the fast chargers will not work, because they're not there. There isn't even one port, because...they're not there. And the time to charge is awful, since it's just 14-50 outlets or J1772s. So the coast is already WAY better covered and the need is not as great.

Hey now - no need to call someone a liar especially when a) they're not lying, and b) they know what they're talking about, having been there.

On the coast, there are AeroVironment ChaDeMo at locations that include:

Astoria
Newport
Coos Bay
Brookings
And maybe 2 others off the top of my head.

Which, if you dust off your reading comprehension skills, is exactly what I wrote.

You may now go pound sand, er, dirt, as that they have plenty of that in Eastern Oregon. If anyone cared about Eastern Oregon, they would live there. I just drove through it a couple of weeks ago. There's probably more livestock than people, and not much of that, either.

Welcome to how the rest of the world views Southern Arizona, New Mexico, and West Texas.

Meanwhile, the coast offers tourism, a reasonably robust fishing industry, and craft ale. That's why AeroVironment is there, and why Tesla follows.

 

[TaoJones]

I think the Seaside supercharger will get a lot of use. I'm not impressed with Aerovironment, and have never considered them except in an emergency.

I don't disagree re Seaside, but as far as ChaDeMo go, AeroVironment has one of the best networks on the continent. I agree that their per-use fee is not a differentiator, but it was the case less than a year ago that you could pay $19.95 for 30 days of unlimited use.

The Achilles heel remains single pedestals altho there are L2s paired. And of course compared to an SC, they're slower, but so is everything else. I guess that makes them... The best of the rest. "They're #2! They're #2!" Heh.

But for a goat path, it's a nice start.

 

[Rocky_H]

Hey now - no need to call someone a liar especially when a) they're not lying,

Lying does involve malicious intent, which I do think you had in criticizing Aerovironment's network, but I'll give that the benefit of the doubt and revise it to merely "factually incorrect".

and b) they know what they're talking about, having been there.

I certainly do too, having been on a trip that used 2,300 miles, almost entirely in Oregon, in less than a week, using several of those stations.

On the coast, there are AeroVironment ChaDeMo at locations that include:

Astoria
Newport
Coos Bay
Brookings
And maybe 2 others off the top of my head.

There are 11 that are actually right on the coast.
EV Solutions | Subscribe To The West Coast Electric Highway

Which, if you dust off your reading comprehension skills, is exactly what I wrote.

Er, not quite. Your wording did not say exactly that. I brought up the coverage of the "West Coast Electric Highway", which is Aerovironment's name for their entire network of 59 stations, covering Washington and Oregon. It goes inward on I-84, I-90, I-5, and on a few other state highways. You then referred by name to The "electric highway" by Aerovironment, apparently referencing their whole network that I just mentioned, and then said this: "Five or six fast chargers along the coast [...] does not a highway make." So you seemed to be referring to Aerovironment's entire network as consisting of 5 or 6 stations. I suppose you may not have known about the rest.

You may now go pound sand, er, dirt, as that they have plenty of that in Eastern Oregon. If anyone cared about Eastern Oregon, they would live there. I just drove through it a couple of weeks ago. There's probably more livestock than people, and not much of that, either.

Welcome to how the rest of the world views Southern Arizona, New Mexico, and West Texas.

Meanwhile, the coast offers tourism, a reasonably robust fishing industry, and craft ale. That's why AeroVironment is there, and why Tesla follows.

Ah, and here is the thing, where the middle of the country would still not get any Superchargers for a few more years if they were going at it with that attitude. Granted, the two sides of Oregon are like two totally different states, so the Western side is much more likely to love electric vehicles and have plenty of places jumping at the chance to host a Supercharger, while the Eastern side is more antagonistic to such "liberal" enterprises and generally wouldn't want to cooperate with it, so this may have been an easy target of opportunity for Tesla.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Not going to rely on it forever of course, but compare the two: they ARE choosing to rely on no network, with low power single stall situations in Eastern Oregon. It's like opportunity cost, where by choosing to build here in Oregon, they are choosing to not build there in Oregon]

No, they're no relying on anything. Tesla isn't adding 600 Superchargers per year, so it's going to pick and choose.

* complete routes
* destination on the way
Yes, it completes a route, and Bend is a common destination to and from Boise, which is currently very difficult because of no fast charging. So your argument seems to support this route as more of a priority.

Then the priority would be based on how important Boise-to-Bend drivers are as a market compared to the markets for people driving US-101. If you think it's a particularly important route for Boise, you could try contacting the Supercharger team to let them know that and ask them whether they're looking for sites between the two. Note that it would require 3 or 4 new sites, and getting sites to complete the route could be challenging.

So, where should Tesla put their Superchargers to cover the 315 mile gap between Boise and Bend in a way that is traversable in winter? Note that Tesla prefers to put Superchargers at intersections of highways to provide best coverage.

I think Ontario, OR would make sense since it's also on US-95. Only 52 miles away though.
Then Burns, OR is an obvious intersection. Another 131 miles.
Then there's another 131 miles to Bend.
Would that be sufficient?
And can you suggest sites in those locations?

 

[melindav]

Being a lifelong portlander, I can count on one hand the times I've driven east of bend, but drive to Seattle a dozen times a year, to the Bay Area once every year or to and to the coast multiple times a year.
I don't think my travels are unusual for those in the metro area - which is where a large part of the state's occupancy is

 

[TaoJones]

... spin, weaselry, and mischaracterizations

In case you've forgotten, you originally took exception to Tesla opening an SC at Seaside instead of placing an SC or SCs somewhere in the ass end of Oregon. I then wrote this:

The "electric highway", while a hugely impressive achievement by AeroVironment to provide fully functional, full strength ChaDeMO at a reasonable price, is more aptly described as an electric goat path. Five or six fast chargers along the coast (and I've used every one of them from Astoria to Brookings) does not a highway make.

How you spin "hugely impressive achievement" and "at a reasonable price" as anything malicious or disparaging outside of your own mind defies credulity. Further, half a dozen ChaDeMo along the coast relative to the dozens that Tesla already has along I-5 (a real highway) does more resemble a goat path at this stage - especially when already in use when you get there. Either will get you to where you're going - just at markedly different rates. Calling that a "lie" is excessive. Calling it "factually inaccurate" adds little value.

Your other assertions are even more erroneous and do not warrant further comment.

Not your best work.

 

[Rocky_H]

you could try contacting the Supercharger team to let them know that and ask them whether they're looking for sites between the two. Note that it would require 3 or 4 new sites

1 site, not 3 or 4,--in Burns, and yes, I did suggest it over a year and a half ago. I guess it is just not considered important.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

1 site, not 3 or 4,--in Burns, and yes, I did suggest it over a year and a half ago. I guess it is just not considered important.

Burns is 184 miles from Boise. That's too much separation. Tesla spaces at less than 150 miles to allow for varying conditions and redundancy.
And let me ask again: would 130-135 miles be OK on that route in the middle of winter?