Supercharger - Shelby, MT

[AlbertaNetZero]

Update:
From Meeting Monday, Nov. 18, 2019.


The Council discussed the Tesla charging station the electric car company is wanting in Shelby. Tesla advised they can’t provide a direct payment to the City of Shelby for the land used for the charging station, but could do something, such as paving the lot where it would be located.

“The recycling area, the five lots there, where the storm drain pipes were stored, that’s the area they are looking at,” said Mayor McDermott. “They offered to pave there, but then they wouldn’t do anything as form of payment again.”

Flesch said he wasn’t really on board with this, especially when there is a local gas station right next door that pays taxes.

“Tesla charging stations get reimbursements from the government,” said City Finance Officer Jade Goroski. “But the City wouldn’t get any. They would only pay once, by paving. Should we just offer to sell the land if they want it?”

The Council agreed that sounded like a better solution and that should be the option given to Tesla and go from there.

The next City Council meeting is slated for Monday, Dec. 2, starting at 6:30 p.m., at City Hall. These meetings are open to the public.


Cell phone ban while driving in city limits ordinance?

 

[KJD]

“Tesla charging stations get reimbursements from the government,” said City Finance Officer Jade Goroski.

Oh Really. I have never heard of any government program that pays Tesla to install charge stations. Is there any such thing ?

 

[scottf200]

The mayor can be contacted via email. Please be considerate tho. Mayor | City of Shelby, Montana

 

[PLUS EV]

Man, that part about BIG OIL paying taxes really sticks in my craw. Unfortunately, Tesla's hands are kind of tied here as the city has annexed virtually all the land that any businesses occupy (look at the city limit boundaries lol) and this town splits the Great Falls to Fort MacLeod gap pretty well and is also on US Highway 2. That being said, I would be very tempted to give them the middle finger and try for some type of other option(s). As it is, I will go out of my way not to patronize any businesses in this town when I do travel there in the future. I have a long memory.

 

[scottf200]

Man, that part about BIG OIL paying taxes really sticks in my craw. Unfortunately, Tesla's hands are kind of tied here as the city has annexed virtually all the land that any businesses occupy (look at the city limit boundaries lol) and this town splits the Great Falls to Fort MacLeod gap pretty well and is also on US Highway 2. That being said, I would be very tempted to give them the middle finger and try for some type of other option(s). As it is, I will go out of my way not to patronize any businesses in this town when I do travel there in the future. I have a long memory.

Why not just reach out with a considerate email about how you frequent eateries and convenience stores when you stop as superchargers?

 

[PLUS EV]

Why not just reach out with a considerate email about how you frequent eateries and convenience stores when you stop as superchargers?

Because I feel that politicians and local business owners should have some vision of the future and common business sense without me needing to explain it.

 

[Raleel]

“Tesla charging stations get reimbursements from the government,” said City Finance Officer Jade Goroski.

is this accurate? does tesla, or anyone else for that matter, get reimbursements from the government for superchargers? i understand some states give rebates on charging stations for home use.

Here's what I wrote to the mayor of Shelby. It's important to note here that things like high school class and which college you attended are important for familiarity here. My wife being from Outlook (which barely exists anymore having been so small and then being wiped out by a prairie fire) shows i know what the small town is like.

I have recently become aware of Shelby being considered as a location for a Tesla Supercharger. As a former resident of Montana (Butte High, class of 1990, attended U of M, sorry), and married to a small town Montana girl (Outlook, Class of 1991, also attended U of M, sorry), I would strongly encourage you to support this.

I have been an owner of a Tesla Model 3 for the last year and a half, and have been closely following Tesla for another 8 years before that.

In that time, I've seen the supercharger network grow and seen the impact that it has on small towns, as I have stopped at many superchargers in small towns. It brings in young folks who grow to appreciate a small town life - they may not stay long per visit, but they are there for half an hour to an hour and learn to enjoy their time. They appreciate the quiet, away from the hustle and bustle they get in the larger cities.

I've also noticed it brings in business. Every single time I stop at a supercharger, I'm looking for a cup of coffee or a meal. Every single time. Not only that, I'm most often bringing my family (one son, 9, he's been to Glacier a couple times) and they are also looking for a drink or a meal.

Superchargers are not like gas stations really - you tend to stay a bit. It takes more than the 5 minutes it might take to pump gas. You might walk over the a casino, gets some ice cream at a local attraction, or walk two blocks up to a local museum. It is definitely a way to get yourself acquainted with a small place like Shelby.

Thank you for considering a Tesla Supercharging station. ​

 

[Raleel]

I think ultimately the trick here is that it’s city land. They would be giving up the flexibility of setting that land for something else by putting a supercharger there, taking on the onus of managing that resale. Selling it to tesla bypasses this, but tesla probably demonstrably want an asset like this in the middle of montana. Tesla paying taxes on the land is something they don’t want to do for such a small junction.

it also happens to be right next door to the local electrical cooperative and the substation. This is an angle, as the supercharger will be a fairly large consumer of power. It makes Tesla’s infrastructure cost (running the line) cheaper.

for us as tesla owners, we need to encourage tesla towards this, even if it is higher cost. These locations are going to be hard to cover without it.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

I think ultimately the trick here is that it’s city land. They would be giving up the flexibility of setting that land for something else by putting a supercharger there, taking on the onus of managing that resale. Selling it to tesla bypasses this, but tesla probably demonstrably want an asset like this in the middle of montana. Tesla paying taxes on the land is something they don’t want to do for such a small junction.

it also happens to be right next door to the local electrical cooperative and the substation. This is an angle, as the supercharger will be a fairly large consumer of power. It makes Tesla’s infrastructure cost (running the line) cheaper.

for us as tesla owners, we need to encourage tesla towards this, even if it is higher cost. These locations are going to be hard to cover without it.

Interesting, I hope Tesla does buy the property. Then puts mega packs and contracts with a huge wind farm to stabilize the power, starting the ball rolling on converting that whole state to renewables.

Edit: Another thought: perhaps the city of Conrad would like the visitors more than Shelby. Anyone writing the Mayor should point that out.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Snip.....The next City Council meeting is slated for Monday, Dec. 2, starting at 6:30 p.m., at City Hall. These meetings are open to the public.
Cell phone ban while driving in city limits ordinance?

Sounds like a reason to road trip.

 

[cpa]

Does Montana have an unsecured property and/or possessory interest tax? I presume it does. I wonder if hizzonor in Shelby is aware.

At least in California, these taxes stay in the county of assessment, and do not get remitted to Sac for reallocation.

We may wish to research this to see if Tesla would be paying property taxes on its Supercharger. Or possessory interest taxes on city-lots.

 

[Raleel]

Interesting, I hope Tesla does buy the property. Then puts mega packs and contracts with a huge wind farm to stabilize the power, starting the ball rolling on converting that whole state to renewables.

Edit: Another thought: perhaps the city of Conrad would like the visitors more than Shelby. Anyone writing the Mayor should point that out.

Conrad is sadly a bit off the Highway 2 route and also pretty long haul up north. Not ideal. They would probably better off finding another spot in Shelby.

Does Montana have an unsecured property and/or possessory interest tax? I presume it does. I wonder if hizzonor in Shelby is aware.

At least in California, these taxes stay in the county of assessment, and do not get remitted to Sac for reallocation.

We may wish to research this to see if Tesla would be paying property taxes on its Supercharger. Or possessory interest taxes on city-lots.

I would bet the city’s finance director is, and they were involved in the meeting, and I suspect that the state does offer it.

there are some other spots very close there that make just as much sense. The carousel is just very good, I think. Tesla just doesn’t want to take on the taxes for ownership, and probably not leasing, of the land. Does anyone have a good example of them taking on ownership? Most superchargers are on someone else’s land and they persuade through arguments I made above. Maybe the big 40 stall with the cafe, but almost nothing else thst I can think of.

 

[eladts]

Conrad is sadly a bit off the Highway 2 route and also pretty long haul up north. Not ideal. They would probably better off finding another spot in Shelby.




I would bet the city’s finance director is, and they were involved in the meeting, and I suspect that the state does offer it.

there are some other spots very close there that make just as much sense. The carousel is just very good, I think. Tesla just doesn’t want to take on the taxes for ownership, and probably not leasing, of the land. Does anyone have a good example of them taking on ownership? Most superchargers are on someone else’s land and they persuade through arguments I made above. Maybe the big 40 stall with the cafe, but almost nothing else thst I can think of.

The Carousel seems to be a seasonal business with a limited parking space. The tay paying gas station next door seem to have huge parking space and it would be directly benficial to them to host the supercharger in order to attract traffic to their 24/7 convenience store.

 

[mociaf9]

I'll always leave open the possibility of some miscommunication between Tesla and the City or between what was said at the meeting and what got reported, but frankly Tesla's reluctance to pay rent for using the space is pretty unreasonable. Sure, having more traffic, and therefore more people spending money in town = slightly increased tax revenues, means they aren't bringing nothing to the table. But for a supercharger that isn't ever going to be getting much traffic that argument strikes me a pretty tough sell. Depending on the sizes of the lots being discussed, offering to pave them might be a reasonable alternative, but in the case where the city isn't interested in that solution, Tesla should be paying rent.

 

[Chuq]

They should just get two of their Megapacks-on-a-trailer, park one there, every time it gets low swap it out with the other one to trickle charge.

 

[AlbertaNetZero]

I see Tesla was on the Agenda, but I cannot see any reference to what was discussed in the minutes:

City Council Agenda | City of Shelby, Montana

http://www.shelbymt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/12-02-19-a.pdf

http://www.shelbymt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/12-02-19-b.pdf

 

[acarney]

You have to remember that this is city land that Tesla is asking to use, essentially for free. They will improve the land, but at their benefit (paving it). That wouldn't help the city if down the road if Tesla left or if the supercharger was asked to be removed the city wanted that to be a green space, possibly at the vote of residents. The city doesn't generate any direct tax by offering the supercharger there. The gas station across the street might also be upset that THEY have to pay tax while Tesla doesn't. The city sounds open to having a supercharger by suggesting that they could offer the land for sale. The city could be supporters of EVs and still have an issue with just handing over land tax free since it's giving preferential treatment to a non-government entity. In addition, Tesla DOES charge for supercharger use, even if it's claimed it's just to cover the cost of electricity and re-investment in the supercharger network, so now the city is offering a private company free land to use AND to generate income from. It would be interesting to see if Tesla could work with the gas station across the street to locate it there, or if the business owner of the gas station would want to buy the land the city is offering up and then immediately allow Tesla to pave and build a supercharger there. The gas station would be paying property tax on the land, but it might be worth while to them if Tesla owners walk over and buy stuff in a large enough volume.

 

[PLUS EV]

You have to remember that this is city land that Tesla is asking to use, essentially for free. They will improve the land, but at their benefit (paving it). That wouldn't help the city if down the road if Tesla left or if the supercharger was asked to be removed the city wanted that to be a green space, possibly at the vote of residents. The city doesn't generate any direct tax by offering the supercharger there. The gas station across the street might also be upset that THEY have to pay tax while Tesla doesn't. The city sounds open to having a supercharger by suggesting that they could offer the land for sale. The city could be supporters of EVs and still have an issue with just handing over land tax free since it's giving preferential treatment to a non-government entity. In addition, Tesla DOES charge for supercharger use, even if it's claimed it's just to cover the cost of electricity and re-investment in the supercharger network, so now the city is offering a private company free land to use AND to generate income from. It would be interesting to see if Tesla could work with the gas station across the street to locate it there, or if the business owner of the gas station would want to buy the land the city is offering up and then immediately allow Tesla to pave and build a supercharger there. The gas station would be paying property tax on the land, but it might be worth while to them if Tesla owners walk over and buy stuff in a large enough volume.

Or the gas station could not buy the land, not pay additional property taxes, and receive the same benefit (increased sales in the convenience store). But somehow the city councilman thinks he’s doing them a favor by blocking Tesla here.

 

[Curlersrock]

Or the gas station could not buy the land, not pay additional property taxes, and receive the same benefit (increased sales in the convenience store). But somehow the city councilman thinks he’s doing them a favor by blocking Tesla here.

Good point. It's my understanding that gas station/convenience stores don't make much money on the gas, they make their money selling "smokes and drinks and snacks and such". So a Tesla SC would be like getting extra pumps and more customers for no additional cost.

 

[jsauter]

I recently emailed the mayor of Shelby about this. Hopefully will hear something from him after the New Year and will follow up here if I do.