Supercharger [should] Require Adapter from Tesla Plug to CCS Plug?

[roblab]

I expect Tesla will dual-head new SCs in order to get the rebate money along with access to public areas (think highway rest stops, etc). In a few years (once a sufficient number of SCs are dual-headed) Tesla will switch the cars to CCS. At that point new SC will be CCS only. Owners with the old Tesla Plug will need a CCS adapter. Opening up the SC network is the best way to maximize EV adoption.

I disagree. Nearly all charging is done at home on 110 or 220-volt circuits. There are a few people who are cheap enough to think that they can drive over to the nearest supercharger and get a free fill up, but thankfully those folk are few and they must own a Model S. With electricity costs a fourth of gasoline, EVs will be adopted because the cost of driving will be at par or cheaper than gas, less polluting, and more convenient as most people do not have a gas pump in their garage but DO have an outlet.

Tesla's doing it right. They make a superior car, with more power, less air and noise pollution, and better looking than the competition. For a little while yet, Ford and GM will hold the pickup truck crowd in their hands, but that will change. If someone thinks the CCS format is superior, buy it, but that's a pretty lame excuse for having to buy a Ford.

 

[Mockingbird]

Tesla's doing it right. They make a superior car, with more power, less air and noise pollution, and better looking than the competition. For a little while yet, Ford and GM will hold the pickup truck crowd in their hands, but that will change. If someone thinks the CCS format is superior, buy it, but that's a pretty lame excuse for having to buy a Ford.

That is just an opinion.

 

[finman100]

it's the correct opinion. why else do ya think the Tesla connector and its cars are so popular? It's just hilarious people don't see that. end of story.

CCS is still stupid and Tesla connector IS the standard. just deal with it.

 

[Mockingbird]

it's the correct opinion. why else do ya think the Tesla connector and its cars are so popular? It's just hilarious people don't see that. end of story.

CCS is still stupid and Tesla connector IS the standard. just deal with it.

Juet about every automaker is selling every BEV that it can make.

 

[strider]

it's the correct opinion. why else do ya think the Tesla connector and its cars are so popular? It's just hilarious people don't see that. end of story.

CCS is still stupid and Tesla connector IS the standard. just deal with it.

The popularity of Tesla cars has ZERO to do with TPC. It is the cars themselves and the SC network. If Tesla cars and SCs had CCS from Day 1 they would still be the most popular cars. This is proven by the non-US markets.

People don't choose a car based on the shape of the plug or the ergonomics of its connector. They choose based on vehicle price/specs and the charging network.

You all need to remember 3 things:
1) Tesla's goal is to accelerate the transition to sustainable mobility. This means getting more EVs on the road, not just Teslas. Opening the SC network along with standardized charge ports helps with this goal.
2) Tesla LOVES government subsidies. Until last year, the only way Tesla was profitable was due to sales of EV tax credits. Tesla will happily make changes to receive government cheese. See also: California Battery Swap stunt/station just to get some more tax credits.
3) The SC network isn't always the best. When I take my kids to summer camp, I pass 3 Francis Energy CCS DC Fast Chargers. The nearest SC is 30 minutes in the wrong direction, adding 1 hour to a 3 hour drive. A friend bought the Korean CCS adapter and I plan to use it next time. But if every car used the same port it would make life easier.

For L2 (home/destination) charging, Tesla could easily include the reverse of the J1772 adapter that they already include with every car today. No one is going to have to go our and rip out ANY L2 TPC stations.

I really don't get how passionate everyone is getting about this. I guess it is Betamax vs VHS all over again except in that case, Betmax actually had a superior product (better quality picture) while VHS had the longer run-time. In the case of TPC vs CCS, the product is the same (electrons and charging speed). The only difference is a small ergonomics difference when doing DCFC.

 

[finman100]

yeah that only profitable with ev credits is getting old. love the fake news idiots. keep reaching

 

[strider]

yeah that only profitable with ev credits is getting old. love the fake news idiots. keep reaching

If you read my actual statement, please tell me what part is incorrect? Q2 2021 was the first time Tesla posted a profit without the help of tax credits.

Tesla finally made a profit without the help of emission credits

A record $1.1 billion profit in the second quarter.

www.theverge.com

 

[LoudMusic]

I admit I haven't read this whole thread but I have done some searching and haven't found any information. Has there been any recent announcement/discussion about how Tesla intends to make Superchargers available to CCS vehicles in North America? I hope to receive a Rivian at some point and having access to the Supercharger network sure would be handy.

 

[srs5694]

I admit I haven't read this whole thread but I have done some searching and haven't found any information. Has there been any recent announcement/discussion about how Tesla intends to make Superchargers available to CCS vehicles in North America? I hope to receive a Rivian at some point and having access to the Supercharger network sure would be handy.

I'm not aware of any official announcement from Tesla. The best I've heard are reports in certain media outlets, like this one, that suggest Tesla will be using something they're calling the "Magic Dock." This is described as a "built-in adapter" -- it sounds as if it will be keyed so that it will be possible to detach it from the cable only when its other end is plugged into the Supercharger station, and vice-versa, so as to prevent it from being stolen. That said, this reporting is fairly old (it's described as information from "last year" [2021]), and it's basically a rumor. Thus, take it with a huge grain of salt. There was also a White House press release in June that claimed "Later this year, Tesla will begin production of new Supercharger equipment that will enable non-Tesla EV drivers in North America to use Tesla Superchargers." That's the closest I've heard for a timeline for developments. Note that, even if production begins by the end of 2022, the date when all, or even a majority, of Superchargers are CCS-enabled could be years from now.

This paucity of information isn't atypical of Tesla. They tend to keep new developments pretty secret until they're ready to make an announcement. That announcement can come years before a product becoming available (as in the Cybertruck) or very shortly before it becomes available (as in the CCS1 adapter's release in South Korea). My suspicion is that we'll really know what they're planning no more than a few weeks before the first CCS-enabled stations come online; and maybe those stations coming online will be how we'll know what they're planning.

 

[bradtem]

I admit I haven't read this whole thread but I have done some searching and haven't found any information. Has there been any recent announcement/discussion about how Tesla intends to make Superchargers available to CCS vehicles in North America? I hope to receive a Rivian at some point and having access to the Supercharger network sure would be handy.

The simplest approach would be to add a CCS cable to the supercharger. Tesla's superchargers in Europe already support CCS so this is hardware and software they already make, modulo the slightly different connector. However, this applies only to new stations and stations they retrofit with a new charging stall unit.

An adapter is not so easy because the charging cable at superchargers will not reach the majority of cars there. The adapter would need to have a long cable in it. Tesla v3 chargers use a special liquid cooled cable so you can't just extend it, or you would need a very thick extender cable.

Tesla could make an adapter with the right length of cable for each class of car model and people could buy that adapter in the right length for their car.

Tesla could create an adapter with along cable, and place it at stations. You would need to have some way to access the adapter cable from a secure storage (it will be valuable for the copper and thus needs to be locked up) and then connect it and restore it to the storage. EVGo made stations with a Tesla/CHAdeMO adapter on a retractable steel cable, which could work but that adapter is less worth stealing for its copper (though they used to sell for $1K on eBay.)

 

[Genie]

The simplest approach would be to add a CCS cable to the supercharger. Tesla's superchargers in Europe already support CCS so this is hardware and software they already make, modulo the slightly different connector. However, this applies only to new stations and stations they retrofit with a new charging stall unit.

An adapter is not so easy because the charging cable at superchargers will not reach the majority of cars there. The adapter would need to have a long cable in it. Tesla v3 chargers use a special liquid cooled cable so you can't just extend it, or you would need a very thick extender cable.

Tesla could make an adapter with the right length of cable for each class of car model and people could buy that adapter in the right length for their car.

Tesla could create an adapter with along cable, and place it at stations. You would need to have some way to access the adapter cable from a secure storage (it will be valuable for the copper and thus needs to be locked up) and then connect it and restore it to the storage. EVGo made stations with a Tesla/CHAdeMO adapter on a retractable steel cable, which could work but that adapter is less worth stealing for its copper (though they used to sell for $1K on eBay.)

Tesla selling adapters of a few lengths is an interesting idea, and a good idea, but it won’t get them any subsidies.
Selling them would show both how many non Tesla EV owners think the network is worth buying an adapter for, and show the public that Tesla is standing behind the superior TPC for their vehicles.

 

[MLXXXp]

Note that, even if production begins by the end of 2022, the date when all, or even a majority, of Superchargers are CCS-enabled could be years from now.

It's possible that Tesla could do two things at the same time:

1. Start installing/upgrading Superchargers to be CCS capable, either with some kind of included adapter (like MagicJack) or a separate CCS cable. As mentioned, this could take years for all stations to be CCS enabled.
2. Allow all stations to work with CCS1 EVs through a user supplied adapter, similar to the Tesla CCS1 adapter but reversed. Tesla could sell these to anyone not wishing to only be able to use Superchargers with built-in CCS1 plugs. As @bradtem suggested, these adapters could actually be cable and adapter combinations to allow longer cable reach.

I guess option 2 depends on how easy it is to make an existing Supercharger support CCS though its Tesla plug with an adapter:

• Just a software update.
• A small, relatively inexpensive and quick hardware change.
• Extensive changes that would make it more economical to just upgrade to full CCS capability including CCS1 plugs, in which case option 2 above likely wouldn't happen.

 

[bradtem]

Tesla selling adapters of a few lengths is an interesting idea, and a good idea, but it won’t get them any subsidies.
Selling them would show both how many non Tesla EV owners think the network is worth buying an adapter for, and show the public that Tesla is standing behind the superior TPC for their vehicles.

Generally, the subsidies are for the install of new stations, but the rules may vary and it may be possible to get a subsidy for modifying a station, though the subsidy for that will not be large as the cost of modification is not large. Or maybe the rules might allow the subsidy to be large to cover the already installed station's cost or part of it.

More likely this will be both new stalls at existing stations, and entirely new stations. It is complicated by the regulations demanding each subsidized station be able to provide 150kw independently of other stations. That is not how Tesla designs stations, and Tesla's approach is superior, but the people writing the law of course weren't that smart. We had an earlier thread discussing various approaches Tesla could take to meeting the requirements without compromising station design too much. Fortunately, in reality, most cars are not drawing 150kw for most of their session.

As such, we would be talking about new stalls, and the new stalls would probably just come with a second cable as well as a Tesla cable. However, if Tesla wished to it could sell adapters (with varying lengths of cable.) Just to get more business. The i-pace, Ioniq and Taycan would need a fairly long cable.

I did propose that it might technically comply with the law to provide stalls with a CCS cable that is the same length as the Tesla cable. Which could be used by almost no CCS cars. But that's the car's fault, not the station, or so the reasoning would go.

 

[MLXXXp]

Tesla could make an adapter with the right length of cable for each class of car model and people could buy that adapter in the right length for their car.

Thinking about this, such an adapter cable would likely end up to be quite massive. You couldn't just use a cable the same thickness and gauge that comes with the mobile connector or wall connector. It would have to be at least the size of the largest cable that Tesla uses on their Superchargers. A cable of the length required to reach the charge port of some EVs could thus also end up to be pretty expensive.

 

[bradtem]

Thinking about this, such an adapter cable would likely end up to be quite massive. You couldn't just use a cable the same thickness and gauge that comes with the mobile connector or wall connector. It would have to be at least the size of the largest cable that Tesla uses on their Superchargers. A cable of the length required to reach the charge port of some EVs could thus also end up to be pretty expensive.

Fairly. For some of the cars, it would only need to be a few feet -- not much longer than the CHAdeMO adapter cable Tesla sold for $400. But there are cars where you might need 10 feet. Tesla could also stock them in a lockbox at stations, and let people who pay take the cable from the lockbox and use it and return it. That is the better solution, but requires infrastructure at the station, while an adapter is appealing to a customer who just wants to be able to go to any SC and use it. As you can see some cars only need a short cable (Ionieq BEV/Polestar/Volvo) and Audi e-Tron. The Kona/Niro might need a 3 foot cable.

 

[3sr+buyer]

EVGo made stations with a Tesla/CHAdeMO adapter on a retractable steel cable, which could work but that adapter is less worth stealing for its copper (though they used to sell for $1K on eBay.)

Seems that other EVgo stations had the CHAdeMO holster be the adapter with the Tesla cable and plug coming out the other side. In the photo below, note that the blue CHAdeMO plug is in a holster with the Tesla cable coming out the other side. It also looks like this is a relatively inexpensive add-on to a station that originally had only CHAdeMO and CCS1. However, it also means that Tesla charging is limited to CHAdeMO speeds (although, in theory, something similar could now be done with a CCS1->Tesla adapter built into a CCS1 holster so that Teslas with CCS1 capability can charge at the often-higher CCS1 speeds).

This type of arrangement seems to be the most obvious solution if they do not come up with an adapter that can only be released from the holster if the plug is locked onto it (so that it cannot be lost or stolen) that the "magic dock" seems to hint at.