Supercharger speed: 116kW

[David99]

Thanks Toni for posting this data! Very useful.

To get a better idea how much faster the Model 3 charges:
my 'old' Model S 85 needs 50 minutes to charge 190 miles (best case scenario)
the Model 3 needs 24 minutes to do the same.

Both cars max out at 116 kW power at the Supercharger. It just shows how little the maximum charge rate means. The Model 3 maintains a higher rate much longer (to a higher battery level). It also needs less energy to drive the same distance. Both combined add up to pretty much double the charge speed or half the time spent at each Supercharger. That's a huge improvement.

i don't suppose there's any plan to port this to android or a web app?

Try Teslafi.com! I've been using it for more than 2 years. Captures and logs everything the car sends out to the mothership. When you sign up, you can use 'sharkcookie' as a code to get an extended free trial period.

 

[Zoomit]

I made just two logged data points for Model 3 LR consumption in ideal conditions (level hard surface road, no wind, warm weather, no significant battery / cabin heating or cooling, no degradation):

70mph - 4.0 miles/kWh (250 watthours/mile)
112km - 6.43 km/kWh (155.5 watthours/km)
17.5kW consumption rate

90mph - 2.7 miles/kWh (370 watthours/mile)
145km - 4.35 km/kWh (230 watthours/km)
33kW consumption rate

Calculating for aerodynamic drags, we should have double the consumption rate at 90mph than we do at 70mph, using a simple calculation of velocity cubed:

(90 / 70) ^3 = 2.12 (about double)

This data is meaningless to us data geeks without specifying the tire/wheel option.

 

[Zoomit]

My eyeball of the graph

The lines on the graph are hand drawn and can be ignored since they're misleading. There are 6 data points on the graph and they are annotated.

 

[suwaneedad]

125 miles in 15 minutes !!!

View attachment 277091

1 February 2017 @ Kettleman City, California USA

This graph, for me, does a terrific job illustrating why getting the long range battery makes sense...take the example of charging for 25 minutes. In the LR, one achieves nearly 60 more miles of range charged than an owner of the SR will do. That will make a ton of difference to me in convenience on road trips, and often even locally. No brainer $9k in my book.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Just a question since I've never driven it that low, when you did the 200 mile drive that dropped you to 6%, how many kWh did the car say you used?

The car did not start fully charged, since the goal was to arrive at or below 10%. I had to drive really fast to make that happen!

 

[TonyWilliams]

It's not a question of how high it got, it's a question of where it started at and how quickly it got to 116kW. Some people have reported 117kW; nobody is doubting 116kW Did it start out at ~55kW, ramp up to 90kW almost instantly, take 2 minutes to get up to ~112-113kW, then slowly ramp up to 116kW?

Also, you claim here that it held 116kW to 45% SoC, but that's not what your graph shows. Your graph shows 110kW at 45% SoC, having declined from 116kW.

Again, I'm trying to determine what's real and what's just drawing issues / guestimates

1) Yes, I've seen it bounce between 117kW and 116kW, but mostly stay at 116kW

2) I did not pay attention to all the nuances of how quickly it got to 116kW (whether it first went to some other charge rate first)

3) The graph was drawn with my fat finger on the iPad while sitting in the Kettleman City Supercharger lounge. The data points are accurate, the lines are approximations. I did not start out to graph anything, since I was just curious how fast it would charge (my fastest charge rate previously was 90kW). What prompted me to start documenting this was seeing 116kW still at 45% !!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

This data is meaningless to us data geeks without specifying the tire/wheel option.

Good point! The car is a 2017 Tesla Model 3, with stock 18" wheels and Michelin tires, with the aero hub caps installed.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If it would continue at that rate, that would be great, but it drops off quickly.

It actually doesn't drop off quickly in terms of energy... up to 45% SOC with full 116kW is not dropping off!!! No other Tesla that I'm aware of will go to 45% SOC at full power of the Supercharger.

 

[Zoomit]

I thought I just explained. The display in the Model 3 (at least in my car) show a drop in the rated miles remaining equal to the actual miles driven when the wH/mile is about 235. It counts down the rated miles remaining starting at 310. .235 * 310 is 72.75, and that seems to track pretty closely with the battery remaining % dropping compared with the displayed kWh used, although because they only display whole number kWh used it's a bit rough. Just a question since I've never driven it that low, when you did the 200 mile drive that dropped you to 6%, how many kWh did the car say you used?

A ~73 kWh usable capacity, derived from vehicle-supplied energy consumption data, is a very interesting number. The EPA EV range test methodology (SAE J1634) was shown to yield a 334mi range (3 LR Aero) but Tesla "voluntarily reduced" that to 310 mi. I've speculated previously that they wanted to account for the reduced range from the 19" Sport wheel/tires; however, I now have another theory.

The usable capacity was also tested to be 78.3kWh, as reported in Tesla's EPA data submission. If we ratio that down by the same amount the range was reduced, it equals ~73kWh. [310/334*78.3=72.7] Basically, what I'm saying is the rated miles from the car appear to be derived from the same energy consumption rate required to go 334 miles with 78.3 kWh, specifically 234 Wh/mi.

What this implies is that the car might maintain a 5.6kWh [78.3-72.7] or 24 mi [334-310] reserve below 0 mi range that is accessible. That's 7% of the battery, which seems like an extraordinary amount of non-advertised reserve. But that's what the numbers say to me.

Of course, making it "non-advertised" also keeps the 315mi Model S 100D as their longest range car. It would also be possible for Tesla to increase the rated range simply by reducing this reserve quantity in the future. Additionally, they could select a lower reserve for the AWD car, for example, and be able to advertise a longer range. This pseudo "longer range" would help to justify that higher margin car for many people.

All it takes to verify this is for one brave soul to drive past 0 miles range and see how far the car will go. Have there been any public reports of people running out of battery in the 3 LR?

 

[Big Earl]

It actually doesn't drop off quickly in terms of energy... up to 45% SOC with full 116kW is not dropping off!!! No other Tesla that I'm aware of will go to 45% SOC at full power of the Supercharger.

The 100D Model S will charge at 116-117 kW up to about 60% SOC.

I was flipping through my photos from a recent trip, hoping that I took a picture of this, but I only got a picture of it charging full speed at 50% SOC.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1W5yDHbRLxohMFrD3

 

[KarenRei]

1) Yes, I've seen it bounce between 117kW and 116kW, but mostly stay at 116kW

2) I did not pay attention to all the nuances of how quickly it got to 116kW (whether it first went to some other charge rate first)

3) The graph was drawn with my fat finger on the iPad while sitting in the Kettleman City Supercharger lounge. The data points are accurate, the lines are approximations. I did not start out to graph anything, since I was just curious how fast it would charge (my fastest charge rate previously was 90kW). What prompted me to start documenting this was seeing 116kW still at 45% !!!

Okay, thanks - that gives a couple datapoints to enter, then

 

[hill]

It actually doesn't drop off quickly in terms of energy... up to 45% SOC with full 116kW is not dropping off!!! No other Tesla that I'm aware of will go to 45% SOC at full power of the Supercharger.

other varibles yet unknown - at what odo reading/or supercharger use % will Tesla throttle the charge speed of the 3, & what will that lowered cap be.
.

 

[dho]

Several posts in here have said 78 usable with around 82 as the full capacity

I have some pretty solid data to suggest this is not the case. I'll look in to it some more tonight, but I'm pretty sure my numbers are correct.

 

[bozo]

Got up to 314 miles of charge and it was still going when I unplugged it from the supercharger.

 

[Teacherspet]

Went to Fort Myers Supercharger there were 4 Tesla’s in stall my was charging at 35kw very slow

 

[wwu123]

The lines on the graph are hand drawn and can be ignored since they're misleading. There are 6 data points on the graph and they are annotated.

Ah, yes, I did not realize the graph was hand drawn and there were only the six data points. As a data driven person myself with every charging session logged with per-minute detail in TeslaFi, I do get why KarenRei is asking. Though having actual detailed logged data from a charging session or 20 is going to be more satsifying that anecdotally piecing together this session.

 

[Peter Lucas]

Based on the Model 3 averages in Nikola, Model 3s appear to have approx 73kWh usable capacity.

73 kwh useable capacity. That's about the same as my Model S 90D.

 

[Zoomit]

On the private Facebook Bolt EV Owners group, @TonyWilliams posted Tesla app screenshots of his charging session that he graphed in his original post. I took the liberty to regraph the data because the screenshots contained two more data points and another was in error. Here's my version of Tony's data:

I also used this data to update my 3 LR charging model, which is simpler now since it has a very obvious linear taper above about 45% (140 rated miles). I should note that there is a report of faster charging than this graph depicts. @FlyingCookie reported in this thread 80kW at 248 mi (80%) and 70kW at 264 mi (85%).

 

[Zoomit]

Here're the screenshots from the FB group. These came from Tony, whom I presume doesn't mind me reposting them.

 

[gaswalla]

The key is that 1 kwh gives 4+ miles on the 3 and a little less than 3 on the S.. That's 33 percent right there, plus a less aggressive taper