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Supercharger station 135kW vs 120kW architecture

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by TonyWilliams, May 3, 2014.

  1. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Ok, a thought just popped in my mind.

    As we know, the Supercharger is 12 of the 10kW chargers that are onboard your car. Tesla gets 120kW because they have 4 of the 10kW chargers on each of three 277 volts circuits (480 volt three phase).

    If those chargers individually pulled 40 amps at 250 volts, that makes 10kW. But, I know from private testing that the charger will back off the amperage above 250 volts, to around 36 amps at 277 volts to stay at 10kW.

    So, my theory is that Tesla keeps the same physical architecture and bumps the amperage to 40 amps at 277 volts = 11.08kW per charger multiplied by 12 equals 132.96kW.
     
  2. nlc

    nlc Member

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    Here in Europe, our chargers are natively 11kW, each charger is 16A capable per phase (actually 13A software limited because of an hardware problem on the high voltage junction box if the rumor is right).

    Thus for one charger we have 230V x 16A x 3 phases = 11kW (actually 9kW with the 13A per phase limitation)
     
  3. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Perhaps SCs in the US use "EU style" chargers (10 of them) since I presume the SC it self is hooked up to a 3-phase grid connection? In that case they would just have to unlimit the SC station to allow for 135 kW.
     
  4. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Didn't you know? The chargers have a "Turbo" button. All Tesla has to do is press it for a 10% overclock. ;-)

    220px-Casebuttons.jpg
     
  5. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    In Europe, you don't need to install any special outlet (like the NEMA 14-50 in North America)? Is it correct that any regular household outlet you use would give you 11kW?
     
  6. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    Nope. Regular household outlets all over Europe are single phase and around 230V AC. Peak load is 16A, continuous load varies between 10A and 13A. The beefier CEE connector family is rated for outdoor use and higher continuous load. They come in 16A, 32A, 63A, and 125A, as well as single and three phase pinouts.
    index.html?&ACTION=13&LA=3&ARTID=29106&WIDTH=300&HEIGHT=300&PIC=1.jpg
     
  7. nlc

    nlc Member

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    Standard 230V outlet will accept 16A max, thus 3.6kW. But by security the Tesla UMC limits to 13A (3W).
    To have more power, we need to install a single phase blue socket, which permits 32A with the Tesla UMC (7.3kW), or a three phase red socket, which permits 16A on each phase (11kW).

    To have more on Model S will dual charger option, we need to install a wallbox (as the one I designed for example). It can be up to 32A three phase (22kW), or up to 96A single phase (22kW) with the condition to have the phase routed to the L1/L2/L3 pin of the Model S.

    In reality for now there is a software current limitation in Europe, single charger car can't go above 9kW, and dual charger car can't go above 18kW.
     
  8. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Remember that while the AC chargers are rated for input power, the Superchargers are rated at output power. That is about a 10% difference. A 120 kW Supercharger Cabinet needs about 132 kW in.
     
  9. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    I've heard it's one more charger per phase.
     
  10. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    That would make sense. At 90% charger efficiency, 150 kW AC in would produce 135 dW DC out. That matches very well with 15 or 3x5 charger modules rated at 10 kW each.
     
  11. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    When I was at the Burlington, WA, Supercharger a couple of months ago Tesla techs were there swapping out one of the charger modules in one of the Supercharger cabinets. I peeked inside while chatting with them and didn't see any more room for another charger module. The cabinet appeared to be completely full with 12.

    That's actually where I originated the "Turbo" button comment - "How are you guys planning to up these to 135kW when there's no more room for a 13th charger? Do you have a "Turbo" button?" They just chuckled but didn't offer up any info.

    I did get confirmation that each of the 12 modules is indeed the exact same part as in the cars. The module they were swapping in was from car parts inventory at the Seattle service center.

    I also learned that a Supercharger will still operate with bad modules, just at a degraded charge rate - down 10kW for each dead module. Very resilient system.
     

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