Supercharger Taxi Overuse - What to do?

[camalaio]

Does anyone know what to do about taxis hogging Superchargers? They're against the Supercharger terms of use, but I can't seem to get in contact with anyone that will respond to me.

Current Taxi in Kelowna frequents the Supercharger there, and it's having a notable impact. There are quiet times, but often when I'm there they have 2-5 vehicles there for an 8 stall location.

When at least 4 of their vehicles are there, that means anyone else needs to charge slower. But it can be worse, since broken chargers (as a couple were in the cold) and bad parking placement (due to snow) quickly makes an 8 stall location into effectively 4 stalls at times.

One time I pulled in there were 4 taxis, and the other 4 were occupied by others (myself included). Then another taxi queued up with another car behind it, a strange sight that really got me wondering if this is fair business. They appear to be stressed about charging as well, as some of their vehicles have very reduced range (one was saying they only get 100km to a charge on the old Model S, and they likely charge slowly too). To relate to other infrastructure, if taxis were hogging gas pumps and slowing down pump speeds for everyone while also triggering lineups, people would probably be upset.

Current Taxi is only looking to expand their business, apparently to other cities as well. This isn't scaling well, as the Kelowna Supercharger is quickly becoming the Current Taxi Supercharger. Tesla seems fine with this, even recommending to use Current Taxi to get around during local service appointments.

Sucks to be a downer on EV taxis, but their growing public charger overuse is indeed a bit unfair to others just trying to get a charge to continue on their way. From my perspective, it should be entirely feasible for them to charge their fleet overnight and install 50kW CHAdeMO private stations if they need to fast-charge during the day.

Any ideas? The general support email was a dead end. Am I being too harsh?

 

[camalaio]

I read now that they're not looking to expand to other cities, they actually have already -- Victoria.

I'm not sure how that's working out for them given that the only Superchargers there are 72kW Urban ones that are incredibly expensive to charge off of, to the point of getting fairly close to the price per kilometre of gas in something like a Prius. At least there's a larger number of stalls, though I'm not sure how much they're used (I arrived there late in the evening one day and the parkade was basically empty). Anyone in Victoria know what they're doing?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Sounds like you are using Superchargers for your daily transportation as well. Better if everybody local would charge at home if possible.

In US they had similar issues some time ago, but for companies buying newer Tesla they are instructed not to clog up busy Superchargers.

Problem is that they are just so tempting. Cheap, easy to use, fast charging is always going to be the go to place for EVs.

Fuel is a huge expense for Taxi use. Imagine they will continue to use them if they can get away with it.

Seams like most every heaviliy populated urban area is using their local Superchargers close to capacity at certain times of the day. Clever locals can go at non busy hours and continue to charge at home whenever possible. While on the open highway, most Superchargers are pretty empty, except at busy holiday rush.

 

[camalaio]

Sounds like you are using Superchargers for your daily transportation as well. Better if everybody local would charge at home if possible.

In US they had similar issues some time ago, but for companies buying newer Tesla they are instructed not to clog up busy Superchargers.

Problem is that they are just so tempting. Cheap, easy to use, fast charging is always going to be the go to place for EVs.

Fuel is a huge expense for Taxi use. Imagine they will continue to use them if they can get away with it.

Seams like most every heaviliy populated urban area is using their local Superchargers close to capacity at certain times of the day. Clever locals can go at non busy hours and continue to charge at home whenever possible. While on the open highway, most Superchargers are pretty empty, except at busy holiday rush.

Nope, using it for fairly exceptional transportation that exceeds the range of the car. It's not something we do every day or even every week (or even every month). Over the 7 months we've had the car we've used it maaaybe a dozen times? Mostly in the first month on weekends because we were only charging off 120V at the time and didn't have enough charge by the end of the week to make it to Kelowna to see family and get back home. Supercharger was notably less busy that 6 or 7 months ago.

I get the holiday and even rush hour crowd, but those are still personal vehicles instead of business use. Current Taxi recently purchased a few Model 3s, so I would think at that time they may have received similar instruction to not clog things up?

I completely agree they will continue to use the Superchargers as long as they can. Even if it's expensive as far as charging goes, it's still cheaper than gas. Except in Victoria, that seemed like a poor decision. For context, when I was in Victoria it cost us over $20 to charge to 90% from some percentage that I do not recall. Let's very generously say it was 400km (EPA rated) that it charged for $20. A Prius (EPA rated) is 2.5L/100km, or about $14 for 400km while being a cheaper vehicle. Hmm.

 

[doghousePVD]

Didn't the early Teslas have unlimited Supercharging, including taxis?

 

[wayner]

Didn't the early Teslas have unlimited Supercharging, including taxis?

I know my 2015 Model S has unlimited Supercharging. I don't know the conditions around this, such as whether it is transferrable and whether it applies if the vehicle is being used for commercial purposes.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Didn't the early Teslas have unlimited Supercharging, including taxis?

Yes. On 12/15/2017, Tesla came out with their Supercharger Fair Use policy. This Policy applies to all Superchargers worldwide and all Tesla vehicles purchased, either new or used, whether from Tesla or a third party, after December 15, 2017. The policy didn't apply to cars purchased before that date.

 

[wayner]

Interesting. So what is the value of free Supercharging for Teslas that were delivered before that date? Must be worth several thousand dollars. What would a taxi spend on fuel or charging in a year and what is the NPV of that over the remaining life of the vehicle?

Something to keep in mind if and when I decide to trade in my Model S for something else.

 

[RiverBrick]

For the size of their fleet they should be working with Tesla to have a a couple of their own private Superchargers built.

 

[JDWL]

Ya there always seems to be a few at the Victoria supercharger, I think they have 15 Tesla's here.

 

[BEPA400]

Deja vu

Some guy in 2018 wrote that they have a contract with best western and Tesla?

Western Canada Superchargers

idk. Never been there. just posting cause I recalled reading that.

 

[Lon12]

I stay at the Best Western when we drive through town because of their chargers.
I was a little annoyed that the Level 2 chargers where either iced or had a taxi plugged in. I asked the front desk about the taxi's and they said they allow them to charge there. It's great that the hotel has solar panels and chargers, just don't count on always being able to charge there.

 

[camalaio]

Deja vu

Some guy in 2018 wrote that they have a contract with best western and Tesla?

Western Canada Superchargers

idk. Never been there. just posting cause I recalled reading that.

Thanks for finding that!

"They have a contract with Tesla and Best Western that costs them about $5 per charge. Tesla won't allow them to block use (I've never seen Kelowna full and rarely see anyone else but them) and it will expand before that happens -- unless their contract expires or is terminated which would free up the stations but expansion is more likely. I find the business model that of the future. Let's encourage taxiing people around on rainwater (95% of BC's power is from dams) rather than fossil fuels. Nothing reprehensible about that to me."​

Their last point is why I struggle with calling them out on this. I don't think the contract (if it actually exists) is with Best Western in any way. This Best Western just happens to have a very green reputation (they have Level 2 chargers up front as well and indeed were one of the earlier Tesla Supercharger sites) and people (IMO) are misattributing the relationship between this hotel and Current Taxi very often. And $5/charge can't be as simple as it is, since they sometimes only park there for a few minutes before heading out.

Unfortunately the hope that the charger site would expand before it became problematic hasn't turned out to be true. And I've definitely seen them block use since others have waited for them to finish, or queued up in a way that the taxi is the first to get a charge in the queue. Wonder if @Canuck is still around and has some insight?

I stay at the Best Western when we drive through town because of their chargers.
I was a little annoyed that the Level 2 chargers where either iced or had a taxi plugged in. I asked the front desk about the taxi's and they said they allow them to charge there. It's great that the hotel has solar panels and chargers, just don't count on always being able to charge there.

The one time I used the Level 2 chargers there, some were definitely ICE'd or taken up by EVs that weren't charging. They thankfully do have quite a few and I found an available one. Unfortunately they're in spots that people tend to want to park in for convenience, since they're against the building.

 

[Oveeus]

I personally see this kind of issue of being temporary in the grand scheme of things. The problem is not that taxis are using SC to make their business,

It fits Tesla vision perfectly. These taxi companies are taking on the vision.

The problem is too few SC or DC charging spots.

This should be gone in a few years where more and more SC and DC chargers come online as demand for gas station diminish. In the meantime though, my guess is to just bare with it for now and work on alternatives such as investing in a Chademo or 240v at home.

 

[Speedy Chinook]

There was some debate amongst Vancouver Island Tesla owners when they first started in Victoria. The owner came out and addressed the group and had this to say about it. Answers some of your questions.


The first point I would like to cover is the perception that we are abusing Tesla’s superchargers and fuelling our cars for free. This is not the case. We are well aware of Tesla’s fair use policy and have been working closely with Tesla since our early days in Kelowna to ensure that we are respectful and responsible in our charging. This is no different in our charging here on the island, and I can confirm that we do in fact pay to charge our cars when using Superchargers. There is no free ride for Current Taxi.

Another understandable concern that I have read is that our cars will cause congestion at the chargers. This is an issue that we did run into in Kelowna in our early days, but one that we addressed quickly. We now have policies in place in both cities where we limit the number of our cars that we plug in at any given time. If one of our drivers needs to plug in and we already are at our limit, one car must unplug and move on before the next one charges. Further to this, we also have an internal policy that sates that if all superchargers are in use and another Tesla owner is waiting for a spot, we will unplug and give up our spot.

We are not a company that is trying to challenge municipal infrastructure. Quite the opposite. In collaboration with Tesla we have actually helped to install 6 new EV chargers at numerous businesses in Kelowna. We plan to do the same here on the island. I started this company as a small family business so we could give back to our community. Three years later, it is still that to us.

We also know that as a company we do need to prepare for self-sustainability. Regardless of how big Current gets, we know that infrastructure will continue to be challenged with the ever increasing adoption of EVs. This is why we are already working with Tesla and other providers to acquire our own DC chargers. Our goals are to one day have our own dedicated chargers and only see your smiling faces as we pass each other in traffic.

 

[sakimano]

When at least 4 of their vehicles are there, that means anyone else needs to charge slower.

I'm not sure this is accurate. Basically the old shared chargers have a max power output potential and the first on of the two (a or b) gets the lions share based on their need. But if they're at 70% charged and have a 75 kwh battery they're probably only drawing around 35 kw, thus leaving you with potentially 100 kw + power.

It's not that bad unless they all just connected.

 

[camalaio]

There was some debate amongst Vancouver Island Tesla owners when they first started in Victoria. The owner came out and addressed the group and had this to say about it. Answers some of your questions.


The first point I would like to cover is the perception that we are abusing Tesla’s superchargers and fuelling our cars for free. This is not the case. We are well aware of Tesla’s fair use policy and have been working closely with Tesla since our early days in Kelowna to ensure that we are respectful and responsible in our charging. This is no different in our charging here on the island, and I can confirm that we do in fact pay to charge our cars when using Superchargers. There is no free ride for Current Taxi.

Another understandable concern that I have read is that our cars will cause congestion at the chargers. This is an issue that we did run into in Kelowna in our early days, but one that we addressed quickly. We now have policies in place in both cities where we limit the number of our cars that we plug in at any given time. If one of our drivers needs to plug in and we already are at our limit, one car must unplug and move on before the next one charges. Further to this, we also have an internal policy that sates that if all superchargers are in use and another Tesla owner is waiting for a spot, we will unplug and give up our spot.

We are not a company that is trying to challenge municipal infrastructure. Quite the opposite. In collaboration with Tesla we have actually helped to install 6 new EV chargers at numerous businesses in Kelowna. We plan to do the same here on the island. I started this company as a small family business so we could give back to our community. Three years later, it is still that to us.

We also know that as a company we do need to prepare for self-sustainability. Regardless of how big Current gets, we know that infrastructure will continue to be challenged with the ever increasing adoption of EVs. This is why we are already working with Tesla and other providers to acquire our own DC chargers. Our goals are to one day have our own dedicated chargers and only see your smiling faces as we pass each other in traffic.

Thanks for finding this, it's certainly interesting. It might be worth listening to what the mobile service guy said, and contact Current directly about this to see if they're aware of the situation. Either their policies to limit the number of charger used are not being followed by drivers for some reason (perhaps they need to in order to make money) or the limit is something unreasonable like "leave at least one open spot".

In any case, I find it interesting this is a problem they claim to have run into "in the early days" (when they had perhaps only 4 vehicles?) but allegedly not anymore with their larger fleet.

I'm not sure this is accurate. Basically the old shared chargers have a max power output potential and the first on of the two (a or b) gets the lions share based on their need. But if they're at 70% charged and have a 75 kwh battery they're probably only drawing around 35 kw, thus leaving you with potentially 100 kw + power.

It's not that bad unless they all just connected.

I've both experienced it and heard the taxi drivers bicker about it when they park next to each other. If I'm charging and someone starts charging at the shared stall, my charge rate drops. For what it's worth, the Kelowna Superchargers are a bit older and have been around for a while.

I'm not sure exactly how the power split works. Even if it works how you state, the end result is that unless they're charging fairly slowly, you're definitely being dropped in charge rate (if you arrive after they started charging). Though I've heard the power split is 50/50 for some chargers just due to it either internally allocating 2/2 chargers (only one stall, use both) or 1/2 chargers (two stalls used, have to allocate a full one each).

Neither arrangement is more fair than the other really, especially with per minute pricing. Just different.

 

[CFinVancouver]

I am curious to know what the magic number is when the taxi are charging and occupying stalls, I saw three parked there last May 20th when I was there for the weekend. To make matters worse, some guy locked his keys and phone in his girlfriend's model S, this occupying a 4th stall.

 

[Oveeus]

IMHO, we should start an EV charging etiquette movement.

In Asia, where parking stalls are very few and double parking is a daily occurrence, it's very common to have a lil note on the windshield with numbers to call.

We should have something like this here.

 

[camalaio]

IMHO, we should start an EV charging etiquette movement.

In Asia, where parking stalls are very few and double parking is a daily occurrence, it's very common to have a lil note on the windshield with numbers to call.

We should have something like this here.

PlugShare sort of suits this movement. Problem is I've found many people don't use it even today. Actually, it's probably gotten worse as EV adoption had picked up. Certainly an interesting problem to solve.

I leave a letter on the front dash. One side says the dog is fine and to call our number if you're concerned. The other says if you need the spot, call our number.