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Supercharger - Wickenburg, AZ

Discussion in 'Mountain/Southwest Supercharger locations' started by AudubonB, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    There finally - Jan 2014 - is beginning to be some movement regarding a Supercharger in Wickenburg. A few posts have begun in other threads; here is a copy of one of my entries elsewhere; they concern a Town Committee meeting being held this evening 20 Jan, regarding placement of SpCs smack dab in the middle of downtown:

    I'll most definitely report back after the 5:30 meeting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If TMInc and the Town are able to come to an agreement, this SpC site will differ from most of the ones already extant in the US. Although I'm sure some others are in good strolling locations, and not just at the nexus of a number of fast food operations, downtown Wickenburg is a real gem (although the sidewalks do roll up amazingly early). Lots of little shops ranging from custom-made saddles and hats to more prosaic knicknknackery. Some of our favorite eateries in the immediate vicinity include the Hog Trough - remarkably good bbq; Nana's Sandwich Saloon; Bedoian's Bistro; Chaparral Homemade Ice Cream; Anita's Cocina...and there are probably a half-dozen more. NO fast food outlets within walking distance!!!! (Nearest ones are over the Hassayampa River bridge to the south. Please remember that ice fishing is strictly prohibited from the bridge).

    There can be resistance tonight - the town does posses elements strongly resistant to change. We'll see in a few hours.
     
  2. airj1012

    airj1012 Active Member

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    Great thanks.

    Any word on the Gila Bend, AZ location? It appears that Gila Bend is a coming soon location whereas Wickenburg, AZ is marked as 2014. Either way, still great progress.
     
  3. Pricee2

    Pricee2 Member

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    .

    - - - Updated - - -
    "(Nearest ones are over the Hassayampa River bridge to the south. Please remember that ice fishing is strictly prohibited from the bridge)."

    Very disappointing. Sand Dab are so tasty.
     
  4. MarkR

    MarkR Member

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    Our best guess is 826 W Pima Street at the Carl's Jr, but we've been wrong before.
     
  5. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    #5 Darmok, Jan 21, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
    Good information, any word on the meeting? With the bypass around downtown having opened a couple of years ago (talk about change), I would think downtown businesses would be happy to route some cars through there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is from the City Council agenda:


    Consider Resolution No. 1733 Approving a Ground Lease Agreement with Tesla Motors, Inc. for Property Located at 155 N. Tegner Street, to Install Electric Vehicle Charging Stations, and Authorizing the Mayor to Execute the Agreement.

    It makes it sound like the agreement is negotiated and merely needs to be signed.
     
  6. Mikial

    Mikial Member

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    Follow-up from our friend at the gm-volt forums that broke this news:


    So the town manager presented the proposal from Tesla for "up to 8 parking spots" in the main lot for town hall which contains approximately 20 total parking spots. However, they were only planning on utilizing 4 to begin with that would be designated for Tesla vehicles only. Tesla would do all work to install the Superchargers, pay for all electricity use, pay a monthly "rental" fee for each parking spot, and would be responsible for "policing" violators that were not Tesla vehicles (yeah right, not going to happen).


    It was stated the reason for using the centrally located town hall was, according to the local electrical company, the need for 3-phase electrical supply could only be met at that location. (Mayor is retired executive from said electrical company and was skeptical - me too.)


    I put in a pitch for the inclusion of J-1772 chargers by showing lists of the vehicles available in 2014 that can use the Tesla charger (that would be 2 - the Model S and Model X) and vehicles using J-1772 charger (21 total vehicles including Tesla via adapter - list taken from plugincars.com)


    Council directives were:
    1) Way too many parking spots requested - 2 appeared to be OK.
    2) Town hall location not really very good - they will revisit other possible sites in the central business district.
    3) Request inclusion of J-1772 facilities for all the rest of plug-in world.
    4) Inclusion of an out clause in the agreement, should things go poorly in the future.


    The only signifcant other question that came up was why haven't other manufacturers come forward with similar programs. My response was that Tesla was very forward thinking and they need the Superchargers for the product to be fully successful. The other manufacturers were interested in building the cars but not really getting into the infrastructure business.


    They also wanted to know how much these vehicles cost, with gasps and chuckles in response to the pricing.


    There was also a town resident Tesla owner (who knew!) that also spoke, but mostly about his car and indicated it was available for viewing in the parking lot - which I took avantage of, along with a lawyer who was excited by it and took lots of pictures to show to his son, and 5 local firemen who wanted to get eyeballs on the car.


    Final outcome is they are proceeding with the negotiations and the mayor is authorized to enter into an agreement with Tesla.


    VIN # B0985
     
  7. araxara

    araxara S-P85#3,218 X-90D#3,299

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    I don't know if this was brought up in the meeting, but the other manufacturers are not coming forward because their pure EVs cannot go far enough to reach Wickenburg from major out of town locations. The J1772 proposed facilities should be at 80A, nevertheless.
     
  8. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    The J1772s would be great for every SC site, to allow those who need to top off, at a slower rate, to move and let those needing the full capabilities of a SC to take the spot.
     
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Well, in Nissan's case it's because they're wedded to CHAdeMO, for others it's because they're either only building compliance EVs or they're building PHEVs that have a competitive advantage when there isn't any destination charging. We'll see what BMW does to support their i3 owners.
     
  10. swegman

    swegman Member

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    Personally, if I were Tesla, I would not accept an arrangement that allows only 2 dedicated Supercharger bays and that the remaining 6 bays be J1772 chargers (which I assume Tesla would be responsible for the cost of the electricity used by these chargers), and would look for an alternative site that is more accommodating to Tesla's needs.
     
  11. rsquared99

    rsquared99 Member

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    This is rather silly. Tesla hasn't agreed to help their Roadsters get charging at SC sites, so why would they support other EVs charging? It's fine to talk about providing charging stations for other EVs, just don't hook it to Tesla's dime, or to the establishment of SCs.
     
  12. LakeForest

    LakeForest Member

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    Does Tesla have to pay rent for the J1772 that its cars won't use? I'm a fan of EV infrastructure but it seems silly for Tesla's budget to go to supporting other manufacturers. It would be cool if the town installed these.
     
  13. EnergyMax

    EnergyMax Member

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    Yeah. J1772 are cool as long as Tesla doesn't pay for the installation, electricity or parking spot.

    In other words - some people are amazing with their entitlement mentality.
     
  14. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    Isn't the town's position kind of like if Burger King asked to lease town land to build a restaurant and being told they also have to sell Big Macs because some people only like Big Macs? The town could leverage the SC site by installing J1772s themselves and creating some traffic to downtown, which I presume is suffering because of the bypass. If there isn't room at the proposed location then put it somewhere else. I could see the town asking TM to bring in enough power to support J1772s that the town or someone else builds and operates, but asking TM to be responsible for them goes too far in my view.
     
  15. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    No, it's more like saying Burger King wants to lease town land and the town saying "Well, that's nice, but really we want people to stay a bit longer and you're a fast food chain. How about you have your construction crew do a bit of work on our visitor center while they're here? Give us a couple of days of labor and you we'll lease you that land."

    We don't know what the J1772 agreement will be. It sounds like the town is thinking about how to get best value out of Tesla being there, which is reasonable.
     
  16. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    Neither analogy seems like an appropriate ask by the town.
     
  17. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Company with charger installation exoertise wants proprietary fast chargers and destination charging,, town wants generic fastish chargers for destination charging.. Seems to me the mutually beneficial solution is the company installing both while they're around.
     
  18. Darmok

    Darmok P5265 XP2065

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    Sure, pay TM to do it or credit the lease cost (perhaps the town is). Don't require it for free as a condition to leasing land.
     
  19. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    OK - am back. We went directly from the Town Meeting to the Emergency Room, and only now are things settled enough to be able to get back home.

    I can't wait to get back to the peace of Bush Alaska!!!!

    Right. So, as you read above, AZ-EV also was there and, as he spoke before I did, spent a lot of his very significant amount of time championing to the Council his desire to include J1772s in on the deal. Oof.

    And the Council - none of whom was openly opposed to the concept - did direct a fair number of questions to him. So by the time I had the opportunity to present, there was little left for me to add other than that I was open to answer any number of the questions that Paul (AZ EV) had to pass on.

    But I DID stress that it was extraordinary - if not unique - for TMInc to approach a town gov't to be its host, rather than a private entity. And that, to the extent that the town has begun to try to address its concerns of the town withering away if/when the Interstate bypass ever comes through, it needs to start now (rather, ten years ago but I didn't say that) in making the downtown a viable visitor destination. And that if the town DOES dilly and dally, TMInc is more than likely to walk away and take the SpCs "across the bridge" (a geographical defining parameter) to the fast food strip.

    Now, I am extremely deferential to Carl Levesque (sp?) and his aggressive courting of TMInc. with the placing of SpCs at his Carl's Jr franchises...in other locations. That's terrific that, at for example, interstate crossroads &c such as at Quartzsite. But what could be occurring in Wickenburg is the confluence of this wave of tomorrow being one of the keys that assists what really is a wonderful remnant of small-town America not dying off. So - I am all in for trying to make sure the SpCs do get placed...somewhere...downtown.

    Thus, after returning from the hospital, I went and talked with one representative of the Downtown Merchants' Ass'n (sadly, not a vibrant organization), and he helped me get in touch with some others; I have a meeting set up with the Town Mgr., and we think it is fortunate that the Mayor is an electrician - used to be the Town's Inspector. The consensus is that APS, who was the entity directly discussing with TMInc, did them an injustice. What became apparent during the meeting - fide the Town Manager - APS told TMInc that in the whole downtown, there were only two sites that both had parking slots and 3-phase power. And this is just plain incorrect! The Mayor was close to visibly perplexed to have heard that (and he a very taciturn chap); and the businessman I conferred with today told me the same.

    Regardless, there IS a big concern with the proposed parking lot: it contains 2 x 9 spots, and the proposed contract is for TMInc. to have 8. In other words, effectively all of one side of quite a small parking lot. It was the immediate impression Jenny and I had when we scoped out the situation much earlier during the day. So....we had to wonder: was APS sandbagging Tesla, secretly hoping for resistance? We don't know, but after that utility's fierce opposition to residential PVs, most visibly opposed by Solar City, six weeks ago, it is easy to start thinking conspiracy here....

    The upshot of the Council Meeting was that the council did NOT put the Resolution to a vote, but requested Town Mgr. to go back and suggest a re-negotiation; as reported in an earlier post, with the possibility of "starting" with potentially as few as two SpC slots. As I am sure forum members and other vehicle owners would agree, I think TMInc. would have little interest in that. Thus, I will continue to bring to the attention of the Town Mgr. and to other downtown merchants the positive aspects of having the SpCs here - and hoping all parties can find another heart-of-downtown location that appropriately can host eight or so charge slots.

    Sure wish I had had the opportunity to address the Council first, rather than having to play clean-up.
     
  20. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    #20 ZBB, Jan 21, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
    Audie -- hope the ER visit was nothing too serious...



    Thanks for the update -- looks like more work to be done...

    For the others there, Audie's reference to the "Interstate Bypass" refers to the proposed Interstate 11, which would run from Casa Grande to the west side of Phoenix, up to Wickenburg and then to Las Vegas... More info here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_11
     

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