Superchargers: 150kW, 250kW ... is there much difference?

[EVer Hopeful]

I found and read a thread about this, but it talked about a Model S, not a Y

I understand the V2/v3 Supercharger differences (I think) and that the charging system in the vehicle controls the charge rate, so I guess the question becomes: "Does the 2021 Y have a top limit to the charge it can receive?"

I could probably RTFM for that, but I figured I'd still ask anyway. I was just wondering if there was any point to selecting specific SCs on a long journey (other than the food they provide of course!)

 

[MatildaModelY]

It really only matters when you have a very low state of charge. So when you have that, the initial speed of charging will be able to get up to that 250kwh. Once it gets closer to maybe 60-70%, it's going to drop off in speed to charge.

 

[GtiMart]

This should help: Tesla Supercharger Showdown: Is V3 Really Much Faster Than V2?

 

[EVer Hopeful]

That makes sense. I wished I'd taken notes on my one long trip

 

[andaconda]

I went to a v3 charger on Sunday. I forgot to precondition before I arrived. It was 18 degrees outside from sitting in the Costco parking lot. When I arrived I was expecting to get 250 kwh fast charge. The other 'Y' that was down a couple of spaces was getting 165 kwh. But after trying three separate stalls I was only able to pull 65 kwh. And yes, I did get a nag on the screen that I forgot to 'navigate to the nearest SC' -- my bad. I had to sit there for 20 mins instead of the 5 mins that I expected.

 

[GtiMart]

Yep, the charging curve is in ideal conditions. That requires something like a 40C (104F) battery or something around that. The cooler the battery the slower the charging, and the car will use some of the charger's power to heat the battery during charging.

EDIT: In normal situations you will not reach such temperatures just by driving.

 

[ZilWin]

In my 21 M3LR I would immediately get to 250kw (or150kw) if I rolled in at 10-15% AND had the car precondition the battery. By the time I got back to the car 10 minutes later it was already well above 50% and was throttling back to complete the required charge for the next SC destination.

 

[origingalatic]

I went to a v3 charger on Sunday. I forgot to precondition before I arrived. It was 18 degrees outside from sitting in the Costco parking lot. When I arrived I was expecting to get 250 kwh fast charge. The other 'Y' that was down a couple of spaces was getting 165 kwh. But after trying three separate stalls I was only able to pull 65 kwh. And yes, I did get a nag on the screen that I forgot to 'navigate to the nearest SC' -- my bad. I had to sit there for 20 mins instead of the 5 mins that I expected.

curious, what does that mean forgot to navigate to the nearest SC? so you are getting 65kwh due to precondition or stall "issue"?

 

[jcanoe]

curious, what does that mean forgot to navigate to the nearest SC? so you are getting 65kwh due to precondition or stall "issue"?

To precondition for using a Supercharger you need to enter/select the Supercharger as the destination using the Tesla vehicle's Navigation system. Then the Tesla vehicle will start to warm up the battery pack in advance of arriving at the Supercharger. This strategy requires ~20 minutes or more of driving before you arrive at the Supercharger. If you are too close to the Supercharger preconditioning might not complete by the time you arrive at the Supercharger. In that case you might want to select the next Supercharger along the route as long as you have sufficient battery charge to reach the next Supercharger. (You could drive around for 20 minutes as the battery pack is warmed but that won't get you any closer to your destination. Note that you can't precondition for Supercharging while the Tesla vehicle is parked, you must be driving the Tesla vehicle to precondition for Supercharging.) The target temperature when preconditioning for using a Supercharger is ~115F. In very cold weather the Tesla vehicle may not be able to fully warm the battery to the target ~115F temperature, the Supercharging charging rate may be reduced.

 

[rjack1282]

On my first short road trip I was able to use four V3 superchargers in a row navigating to each one so battery would precondition and arriving at a low state of charge. I was able to hit 250kw at every stop although is was only for a brief period of charge.

Another advantage of v3 is cable cooling which prevents throttling when the handle or cable of v2 chargers get too hot. The heat throttling on v2 chargers has been demonstrated by the Out of Spec Youtube channel several times.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

To precondition for using a Supercharger you need to enter/select the Supercharger as the destination using the Tesla vehicle's Navigation system. Then the Tesla vehicle will start to warm up the battery pack in advance of arriving at the Supercharger.

So if you think about it . . .



(here it comes)



. . . setting the SC as a destination in the navigation system is really . . .



(wait for it)



. . . pre-pre-conditioning

 

[MorrisonHiker]

To precondition for using a Supercharger you need to enter/select the Supercharger as the destination using the Tesla vehicle's Navigation system. Then the Tesla vehicle will start to warm up the battery pack in advance of arriving at the Supercharger. This strategy requires ~20 minutes or more of driving before you arrive at the Supercharger. If you are too close to the Supercharger preconditioning might not complete by the time you arrive at the Supercharger. In that case you might want to select the next Supercharger along the route as long as you have sufficient battery charge to reach the next Supercharger. (You could drive around for 20 minutes as the battery pack is warmed but that won't get you any closer to your destination. Note that you can't precondition for Supercharging while the Tesla vehicle is parked, you must be driving the Tesla vehicle to precondition for Supercharging.) The target temperature when preconditioning for using a Supercharger is ~115F. In very cold weather the Tesla vehicle may not be able to fully warm the battery to the target ~115F temperature, the Supercharging charging rate may be reduced.

Technically, if you set the navigation destination to be farther away and if it routes you to a Supercharger, it will automatically pre-condition, if needed, so you don't have to manually set the Supercharger as the destination. If you have already been driving at highway speeds then it's possible that little to no pre-conditioning would be required.

One benefit of v3 over v2 Superchargers is that the pairing isn't really an issue. With v2 Superchargers, the two vehicles have to share 150 kW so it's best to avoid a paired stall, if possible.

 

[kgvickers]

Agree with MorrisonHiker, V3 SCs don't share the total power with adjacent stalls. If working properly, you'll always get the full power available and not get annoyed when a newbie parks in the adjacent "sharing" stall.

 

[iamnid]

"Does the 2021 Y have a top limit to the charge it can receive?"

Yes. 250kw.

As noted by others, this is under ideal conditions (battery warm enough to receive this limit and battery low enough to receive this limit). I've achieved this fairly regularly and it DOES make a large difference for the few minutes that the battery is able to receive it at this speed. It will quickly taper down and then, after about 60%, it slows down considerably. It definitely makes a difference though if you time it right.

Another MAJOR difference to note between V2 and V3 chargers is that V3 chargers, in addition to outputting 250kw max, don't share between stalls. V2 chargers max out at 150kw but that's assuming there isn't a car sharing with you -- when that happens, it will effectively half your charge rate to about 75kw which is SIGNIFICANTLY less than V3. V3 will simply give you the max your battery can take, regardless of whether there's a car parked next to you charging.

I recently did a road trip to Las Vegas and stopped in a large supercharger station in Baker, CA -- there were a ton of free stalls (40 total, all V2) and about 10 people charging. Incredibly, about 8 of the cars were all parked next to each other -- effectively doubling their charge time. Thankfully, I've noticed in the last software update, it finally tells people to space out when you arrive at a supercharger.

Also: SR Model 3 and Y max out at 150kw.

 

[Daekwan]

Yep, the charging curve is in ideal conditions. That requires something like a 40C (104F) battery or something around that. The cooler the battery the slower the charging, and the car will use some of the charger's power to heat the battery during charging.

EDIT: In normal situations you will not reach such temperatures just by driving.

Didnt know this. Thanks for sharing.

Did know that the warmer the battery, the faster it charges. But 104F is quite a high temperature to reach when its freezing outside!

 

[Daekwan]

Agree with MorrisonHiker, V3 SCs don't share the total power with adjacent stalls. If working properly, you'll always get the full power available and not get annoyed when a newbie parks in the adjacent "sharing" stall.

Yeah in my experience thats the biggest perk. As Tesla sales have exploded, so has Supercharging. And the chances of you finding an empty stall with no other sharing have dramatically reduced. Especially during popular charging times like during the daytime, on weekends.

 

[andaconda]

Yep— in my case I was only 5 minutes from the charger and it was like 18 degrees— and I couldn’t make it to the next charger. Didn’t want to risk it in case the roads were closed!

 

[eab6287]

Recently noticed the car displaying the 'preconditioning for supercharging' message a full 90 minutes prior to reaching the superchargers on multiple stops during a road trip (this was a M3 in case relevant). It was about 40F which is cold to be sure, but during previous winters we never saw the preconditioning notice more than around 30 mins prior to arriving at the charger.

It made me wonder...if the battery heater is running for that long, what impact is that having on efficiency? At some point I would think the wasted energy would outweigh the faster charging speeds gained by preconditioning further? Or maybe this is just a recent bug....

 

[LoudMusic]

This should help: Tesla Supercharger Showdown: Is V3 Really Much Faster Than V2?

The important part of all of that:

"In the case of our 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long-Range, we went 310 miles at 70-mph. Therefore we need to add back a little over 32% of the battery to regain 100 miles of range. The V3 station did that in 10 minutes and the V2 station took 12 minutes. Adding back 200 miles of range took 23 minutes on the V3 station and 27 minutes while charging on the V2."

V3 is about 20% faster in terms of vehicle stoppage time, in ideal conditions. Otherwise you will not see much difference. It's just a few minutes.

I've certainly been amazed to see those peak charging speeds when they've happened for my car, but so long as it's over about 100kw I'm not complaining. Preconditioning is key.

 

[jcanoe]

Recently noticed the car displaying the 'preconditioning for supercharging' message a full 90 minutes prior to reaching the superchargers on multiple stops during a road trip (this was a M3 in case relevant). It was about 40F which is cold to be sure, but during previous winters we never saw the preconditioning notice more than around 30 mins prior to arriving at the charger.

It made me wonder...if the battery heater is running for that long, what impact is that having on efficiency? At some point I would think the wasted energy would outweigh the faster charging speeds gained by preconditioning further? Or maybe this is just a recent bug....

I have read that the latest software will warm the battery pack more slowly than was previously done when navigating to a Supercharger. There was a statement about hot coolant entering the cold battery pack not being good for the battery.