TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Superchargers Doubling in 2019?

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by T3slaOwner, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. T3slaOwner

    T3slaOwner Member Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ok, let's go through your list checking for improvements to the "Tesla Supercharger capacity"

    Not at all ridiculous or Musk would not keep repeating it every year. You seem to want to focus on just the most recent time he said it.


    No one has said anything about only counting stations. I specifically gave info on both the station and stall counts.
    Actually, it is very insignificant. The improvement in charging rate is over a small portion of the charging cycle. I guess if you limit your charging to that small window, then the small increase become more significant. But this was never a factor before when Musk talked about doubling in 2018 and 2017.

    Not sure that actually improves the charging time overall. If so, wouldn't Tesla tell us to use battery power to warm the battery to get more range? Besides, this does nothing in places like Southern California where it is never cold enough to need battery heating.

    Great, but that's not doing anything for the "Tesla Supercharger capacity". That's making the same capacity work with the new cars which congests the network further for the existing Tesla cars.

    LOL, that is quite a reach to try to use this as an increase in capacity. Maybe it helps a tiny bit in Southern California where every little bit helps. Where I drive there aren't so many chargers that I get much choice. I'm limited to a Supercharger or an Urbancharger. This is the situation over some 95% of the country. The issue of capacity isn't just about being able to charge somewhere, sometime. The network needs to expand to cover smaller cities and towns and give highway travelers more options on when to stop rather than having to stop here when the car still has 30% charge because it wont' make it the 100 miles to the next charger.

    There is no such policy of limiting charging to 80%. The default setting is 80% or less. You can always up it to whatever number you want even from the phone app.

    Yea! But still no cigar since they are not making a significant impact, not the least because nearly half the Tesla fleet still can use the extra kW, at least not on one car. I guess that's why they are where they are, they do the most where the problem is congestion, not location.

    [/QUOTE]There may be other things I either don't remember or haven't thought of as well.

    I think the big shortfall from Elon's tweet has probably been due to a slower roll-out of the V3 superchargers than he was projecting at the time. 3/4 of the year gone and besides the one at the LINQ, the only operational sites are the original "beta testing" locations on Tesla property. We'll see what the rest of the year brings.[/QUOTE]

    What was the expected roll out? I never heard anyone say how many V3 chargers would be in place this year.

    LOL Of course it is relevant. We have no reason to expect the production of pedestals will suddenly ramp up and all the backlog will be installed. We have about a quarter left. I guess we will see.
     
  2. T3slaOwner

    T3slaOwner Member Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yes, it is impressive that EVs exist at all. But that's not all Musk. Heck, he wasn't even there when the first car was designed. He came in after the real groundwork was done and they needed money to take the next step.

    I find it funny that you are talking about the quadrupling of capacity in your area. Some locations have increased by an infinite ratio and others by zero. What's your point?

    VW was not forced to build a charging network. They were being fined and this was a plan they came up with to use the fines for something productive. They have made serious inroads into fast DC charging for non-Teslas, much more than a 20% increase in capacity. I don't know how fast the Bolt will charge on one of these, but I believe it is practical to drive one cross country now. That was the only serious short coming I saw in the Bolt. If I didn't have a weekly trip 120 miles each way I might have considered buying one.
     
    • Disagree x 2
  3. plumazul

    plumazul Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Washington DC
    I agree. This summer on my trips from the east coast to south Texas, my car (same as past couple years) was charging MUCH faster. Almost always starting out in the 146-140kw range. This combined with the better assist from navigation, got me in and out of Superchargers much faster than before. Since I wasn't sitting there using one, the effect is identical to an increase in physical capacity.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    No. I wasn't making a prediction about whether they will hit the goal or not. I am the son of an English teacher, though, who values that words have meanings. You were using past tense for something, stating it as something that is already over in the past, when it actually still has three months left to go. I still don't think they will make it either--probably not close, but that is still to be seen in the future. Also: "your", not "you're".

    You are being a bit like the guy on the other Tesla forums who crowed victory about how they were supposedly proven right that the $35,000 was a bait and switch and was a lie and didn't happen (past tense) just because it wasn't the first version that was offered. We pointed out to him that while they are still making Model 3 and continuing to work toward offering other configurations, the story wasn't done yet, and it still remained to be seen whether the $35,000 version will happen or not.
     
  5. Blup85

    Blup85 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Chico
    #45 Blup85, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    I said that with tongue in cheek, because I went from 6 to 24 superchargers within 30 miles of me, and there will probably be another 24 before years end.. jeez...

    If you think driving a bolt has the same ease of driving a Tesla cross country, good freaking luck. I'd give Electrify America another 3-5 years to figure it out (and they will still charge 4 times more than Tesla) Not complaining, more choices are always better, but c'mon no one is close to the ease of use, accessibility and cost, to Tesla's charging Network.. period. Even with Electrify America they are years away, at a higher cost..
     
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  6. T3slaOwner

    T3slaOwner Member Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    That's one that I still not sure can be called a truth. Yes, you can buy a model 3 for $35,000, but only if you know about it from the press or a friend. They don't list this version on the web site and you have to know to call and order it over the phone. Then on top of that, the car is actually the same as the otherwise lowest version, just software disabled for some hardware that is actually in the car. Tesla doesn't just make a lower profit margin on the car because it is a lower priced car which typically has lower profit margins, it costs the company the same so the difference in price comes right out of Tesla's pocket.

    While they can claim they are making a $35,000 EV, they can't sell too many of them if they want to stay in business.
     
    • Disagree x 2
  7. T3slaOwner

    T3slaOwner Member Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The Bolt reply was about the slope of the line, not the level. I'm too tired to go back and see if it was you or someone else who was talking about how Electrify America is not putting up chargers as fast as Tesla when it is the other way around. A year ago it would be hugely painful to drive a Bolt anywhere further than one charge, stay in a hotel overnight with a level 2 charger, lather, rinse, repeat. Today there is a charging network that may not be as complete as Tesla's, but is in the same camp of making trips feasible. It took Tesla two or three years to do that I believe.

    What people forget about is that there aren't other charging networks comparable because there hasn't been the demand. The other EV makers are still getting their feet wet. So they still have time to get charging infrastructure in place. Tesla has how many cars on the road today??? I believe it is well over half a million and talk about 350,000 a year and even more once the two factories they are building out come online. It may not be geometric growth, but it is a lot faster than 20% a year. Supercharger construction isn't even keeping up with car production and unless they do something about it this will become THE bottle neck giving them a bad reputation.

    It just seems to me this is an obvious potential sales limiter. Tesla acts like they know this. That's why they built the Supercharger network and that is why they keep bragging about doubling the capacity of the network even though they never do. They already have very visible congestion at chargers in their primary market, Southern California. Makes you wonder if it has lost them sales so far?
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  8. Blu Angel

    Blu Angel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2016
    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Mississauga, ON, Canada
    @T3slaOwner

    I found this reference from a Tesla financial analyst that states it
    costs $270,000 yo build each SC!!

    Supercharger: It Could Cost Half the Price of Gas | ARK
     
  9. Blup85

    Blup85 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Chico
    I'm sure the fully burdened costs to install a (typical) 12 stall Supercharger stall is very expensive, but I can't see 270k per stall.
    The estimate of improvements from permitting that I have seen is around 150k-200k for the 14 stall site in Chico, that might not be factoring in PGE, design, and PM. PGE design and transformer placement could easily be 100k but due to the usage, PGE can wave those upfront capital costs due to the massive energy use that Tesla would use (I'd be willing to bet they are). Obviously, Supercharger sites like Kettleman City are on another level, and I can see that site might have cost them 1 or 2 million considering they also purchased the land, but typically its leased from the property owner with an agreement.
     
  10. T3slaOwner

    T3slaOwner Member Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    From your reference, "at roughly $270,000 per station"... that's not per stall or per charger... That's exactly what I said, per station.
     
    • Informative x 1
  11. doghousePVD

    doghousePVD My grandfather’s car

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    New England, USA
    Utilities are slower than turtles. Any sort of "unusual" request can take ridiculous amounts of time. Much of the grid is woefully under equipped, and bringing in the power for a SC often needs significant upgrades, new transformers, and new high voltage lines installed from the sub-stations, most of which need approval from the PUC.

    Plus, as previously mentioned, lethargic approval boards and building inspectors, most of whom have never had to approve megawatt electrical facilities with consumer access, are not rushing forward. Each community has unique building inspectors, each state has unique PUCs, each power company have varying levels of lethargy, and many northern area have limited weather windows for installation.

    I remain impressed at how well and fast more SC are installed.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  12. T3slaOwner

    T3slaOwner Member Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Really? The PUC/PSC has to approve installation of electricity and/or upgrades to the power lines??? Can anyone verify this or are you guessing?
     
  13. doghousePVD

    doghousePVD My grandfather’s car

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    New England, USA
    In most jurisdictions, capital improvements, which are the basis for rates, have to be approved by the PUC. If not, the utility might be building beautiful spas for senior employees for the ratepayers to pay for. Installing a Supercharger is almost always a capital improvement (new lines, new transformer, upstream improvements), unlike a residential install which is simply running a wire from the pole transformer to the house.

    A 8 lane Supercharger is about the power of a 50 unit residential subdivision, with very different usage characteristics that the utility may not be prepared for.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. Blup85

    Blup85 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Chico


    I agree with you on those two points, but can't buddy up with you on your other points at all. No way the PUC has any involvement on the "small" details of setting a transformer for a 12 or 20 stall site. Yes, the load is huge, but there is no way the PUC is getting in to the details of supercharger placement/local approval. PGE is slower than molasses.. ask me how I know.
    That being said, I am also impressed with supercharger deployment, Tesla (and Electrify America) communicating with all different agencies and utilities out there is like speaking 1000 different languages.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    You might have a point if 2019 was their first year doing this. It's not. They know the drill. He made that claim FULLY aware of the implications of what he was saying. They fell horrendously short of his claim. These are the facts. Everyone else is making up excuses.
     
    • Disagree x 2
  16. Fossil Fool

    Fossil Fool Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Prescott, AZ
    I wouldn't have bought our Teslas without the SC network. The fact that is growing at any rate is amazing to me. The infrastructure cost of what Tesla has achieved puts all competitors years behind, unless the market segment attracted to EV doesn't care about traveling outside their cars' range. As a stock holder, I applaud Elon for being the first to solve the chicken or the egg problem with the EVs. It bodes well for EV adoption and a long-term stock value.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  17. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    As a stock holder you should want Elon to not make absurd claims he has no possible way of coming through on. Every time he does it gives just a little more ammo for the FUDs to continue shifting media focus away from the positive things they're doing and talk about the misses honestly. If they're going to make up negative things to say about Tesla, let them. At least those can be combated with facts and proof. Tesla has enough of an brand approval issue w/o volunteering fuel to add to the fire.

    This thread is just another example of how some people are so willing to defend Tesla/Elon at ANY cost that they can't even accept when he's wrong on something that isn't a large deal. Why argue it? He said double the # of Superchargers in 2019 in his own words and even volunteered that information unprovoked. He was wrong. Period. Bring it to his attention, demand better from the face of the company and move on. End of story. Why does this need to be a 3 page debate when he's clearly wrong?

    It's going to get progressively more difficult to defend the made up FUD with credibility when the pro-Tesla among us insist on arguing any and all shots fired against Tesla... even the ones that are accurate.
     
    • Disagree x 3
    • Like x 1
  18. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    So are you using a crane or forklift to move those goalposts? :D

    What nonsense. People were waiting for the $35,000 base version to become available for purchase. Tesla then made it available for purchase. People purchased it. THE END.

    All of your noise about how they aren't promoting it enough or making it clear enough or easy to find enough or whatever new things you are coming up with is extraneous garbage. Tesla never promised that it would be the most promoted and advertised version. They never promised that they would try to make it their best seller. They never promised that they would continue to make it available for a very long time.
     
    • Like x 2
  19. simplego

    simplego Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    :)
    To be fair, Tesla made a big deal out of the $35k version since it was a long promised car and a promise to the masses. There are no goal posts being moved. They achieved the feat, celebrated for a short time and then swept it under the rug. The main reason for this is that economically it’s not worth it for them.

    It’s an off the menu option as mentioned earlier, so you need to be looking specifically for it in order to get it. On top of that their website (as far as I know) does not have any info on the $35k version anywhere. It’s not fully fair to say they offer it if it’s a bit of a treasure hunt to find.

    @Rocky_H To your point they probably did not sell much of the base model since it is/was a stripped down version of luxury vehicle... Which not many people want to pay $35k for, it makes sense to pay 4K more and get a better interior, sound, better range and more.
     
  20. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,171
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    This is a thread about Superchargers doubling in 2019. Perhaps this ongoing conversation can be moved to one of the other dozen or so threads about a $35k Model 3.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC