Superchargers in Australia

[OzVic]

Very disappointing. It's disheartening to see the 20+ stall chargers being built in NA/EU/CN and ours getting constantly delayed.

Ryan from Ride The Lightning podcast was talking about an American site being upgraded to 98 stalls (80 additional!). What is so special about America's power grid that it can support installations like that?

We're lucky to get two 350kw stations before the electricity distributor starts twisting Evie / Chargefox / Tesla's ouchy bits.

 

[Vostok]

Very disappointing. It's disheartening to see the 20+ stall chargers being built in NA/EU/CN and ours getting constantly delayed. I guess with the 9-12 month wait on the 3 and the non-existent Y, the pipeline of new cars has slowed.

I wonder how much the various state government investments in DCFC networks is making Tesla lose its appetite/interest. In NA, the non-Tesla networks are not very good because basically 70% of the BEV fleet there does not use them. Teslas tend to exclusively use SCs there. That’s a massive amount of business the other networks don’t get so no wonder they are not as well capitalised.

With CCS2 standard here, we don’t have that issue. The NSW Government in particular is pumping $170M into a fast charging network. That’s massive.

 

[Vostok]

Ryan from Ride The Lightning podcast was talking about an American site being upgraded to 98 stalls (80 additional!).

Wow - that’s nuts! What kind of utilisation would justify that? The blocking problem rapidly diminishes as the number of stalls increases because the odds of 20+ cars all turning up at the same time to charge becomes very small and the wait time for the next car to finish approaches zero.

 

[Wol747]

>>With CCS2 standard here, we don’t have that issue. The NSW Government in particular is pumping $170M into a fast charging network. That’s massive.<<

What's just as important is the maintenance - it appears from stories that far too often cars are turning up to find chargers not working, or owners not being able to get them to connect.
It's a bit like spending a billion on new hospitals and saying they can't afford doctors and nurses.

 

[OzVic]

Wow - that’s nuts! What kind of utilisation would justify that? The blocking problem rapidly diminishes as the number of stalls increases because the odds of 20+ cars all turning up at the same time to charge becomes very small and the wait time for the next car to finish approaches zero.

Here's a thread on it .. Supercharger - Harris Ranch, CA - Expansion (under construction Apr 2022, 80 stalls)

I guess this one might be high up on the list to open up to other brands..

 

[brainrevisited]

That’s a massive amount of business the other networks don’t get so no wonder they are not as well capitalised.

Good hypothesis, but I think in Europe there are lots of 3rd party chargers and Tesla still builds a lot of stalls. I genuinely think it might just be an out of sight out of mind thing in Australia.

 

[Vostok]

What's just as important is the maintenance - it appears from stories that far too often cars are turning up to find chargers not working, or owners not being able to get them to connect.
It's a bit like spending a billion on new hospitals and saying they can't afford doctors and nurses.

In the NSW “Drive electric NSW EV fast charging grants” funding guidelines released in January, merit criteria for assessing grant applications included:

• The level of detail and credibility in operational cost estimates, including maintenance, customer support and other relevant costs.
• The proposed maintenance and customer service timeframes for each charging station during operation.
• The total operational cost estimates, including maintenance, customer support and other relevant costs.
• The ownership model for ongoing operations of the station, including details of who is responsible for maintenance, customer support and other location specific services.

So I think they are aware of this issue and giving it due weighting in the assessment process.

 

[Vostok]

Good hypothesis, but I think in Europe there are lots of 3rd party chargers and Tesla still builds a lot of stalls. I genuinely think it might just be an out of sight out of mind thing in Australia.

It’s all relative though. The BEV market dynamics are very different in Europe compared to USA - overall BEV market penetration is much higher (12% of new vehicle sales in Western Europe vs 3.4% in USA), and Tesla’s market share is much lower (16% last quarter, according to Electric Vehicle registrations in Europe: 14 countries, 90+% of BEV market) compared to about 70% in USA and 60% here.

While Tesla might still be building lots of stalls in EU because the overall market is bigger (and Tesla’s network is also being opened to other makes), the third-party networks are growing faster.

 

[scully]

They have expanded the trial in Norway, seems to be going well

 

[technerdx6000]

I wonder if Tesla has data on supercharger usage vs third party for the fleet. Surely they do.

Personally when looking at charging options I have three criteria to determine my choice.

• speed
• reliability
• ease of use

Superchargers tick all three of those. Cost doesn't factor into my decision at all.

I have given Evie and Chargefox too many chances. Superchargers work every time.

The only thing Evie and Chargefox have going for them sometimes is location.

I think cost is factoring into other peoples decisions, particularly with the free NRMA network and until 4 days days ago, the cheap QESH network. Even though these chargers are frustratingly slower.

 

[Vostok]

I think cost is factoring into other peoples decisions, particularly with the free NRMA network and until 4 days days ago, the cheap QESH network. Even though these chargers are frustratingly slower.

I think cost is definitely factoring in to a lot of people’s decisions. The free NRMA charger at Nabiac gets a lot of check-ins, way more than Evie Taree 30km away. Some people just can’t resist ‘free’ even if there are other non-monetary costs in doing so. But for me convenience, amenity and charger speed wins.

 

[ausevdriver]

For me speed wins, even if they are in the same spot (like Bathurst) I've plugged into the Supercharger over the free NRMA charger. But I also like to leave the NRMA one free for any non-Tesla who comes by desperate for a charge.

But in general I think Tesla must have the data, even a busy site like Goulburn or Canberra Airport, they put the 80% thing in, but even on busiest days of school holidays (I was at Goulburn several times the past few weeks) there was always spare chargers, at worst somebody was pulling out as somebody was arriving.

I'd expect to see them get an upgrade eventually, but it's no issue in comparison to the queues you see at some of the US sites.

 

[moa999]

Upgrades will happen, but we are nowhere near the utilisation of the US, or the holiday queues seen in California.

For now the Tesla strategy seems in Australia seems more to be infill on the Hume Highway, rather than upgrades.
Eg. Yass will be an alternative to Goulburn for LR drivers from Sydney, similarly Taree takes the load off Port Macquarie and Heatherbrae.

But we do need to see those sites up and running in 2022 or I suspect the summer holidays might have some queuing in peak periods.

 

[cafz]

Personally when looking at charging options I have three criteria to determine my choice.

• speed
• reliability
• ease of use

For me it's:

1. Congestion
2. Location
3. Speed
4. Reliability

I'll avoid sites with frequent queuing (I'm looking at you, NRMA Mittagong) like the plague.

After that, a good location is key - not too far off the route, good facilities. Eg. I've used NRMA Thrumster in preference to Port Macquarie Supercharger because I wanted to stop for lunch there.

Location and congestion being otherwise equal, of course I'll go for the higher speed. And if there's multiple places about equal on the other measures, I'll head for the more historically reliable option (eg., if I'm resolved to stopping in Goulburn I'll tend to head for the Supercharger).

 

[Vostok]

For me speed wins, even if they are in the same spot (like Bathurst) I've plugged into the Supercharger over the free NRMA charger. But I also like to leave the NRMA one free for any non-Tesla who comes by desperate for a charge.

Agree 100%. I’ve used Bathurst once, and if you can afford a Tesla, you can afford to use the SC in preference to the NRMA freebie. Particularly because non-Teslas can’t (yet?) use the Tesla SC, so I consider it rude in the extreme in that situation to plug into the non-Tesla charger.

even a busy site like Goulburn or Canberra Airport, they put the 80% thing in, but even on busiest days of school holidays (I was at Goulburn several times the past few weeks) there was always spare chargers, at worst somebody was pulling out as somebody was arriving.

Broadway (Sydney) and Heatherbrae SCs regularly get full. I believe Macquarie also gets full but can someone who lives up that way give their impressions?

 

[Vostok]

I went to Broadway shopping centre this morning and chanced my arm by going to the EV charging area which I don‘t normally do.

(Those of you who are familiar with this area know what I mean - if there are no spots down there, you have to exit the car park and re-enter to park elsewhere, as there is nowhere else to go. So it is a real pain. Then the ticket gate will try to charge you for multiple entries when you leave even if you‘ve only been there 30 minutes, and you then have an argument with Security to open the gate to let you out).

I was hoping to get some free AC juice, but the three Tesla destination chargers were all in use as was the fourth spot with the Schneider unit. Not wanting to have to exit the car park, I went over the the SuperChargers and there was only one spot left (7 in use, including a bright green Model X!) so I had no choice but to plug in.

So Broadway was totally full with EVs this morning - a Monday morning of all things!

Oh, and as I entered the lift from the car park, Nick Kyrgios walked out

 

[aegidius]

Broadway (Sydney) and Heatherbrae SCs regularly get full.

Never seen Heatherbrae full. I've not been there too many times, but each time I was the only one there. I have seen Coffs Harbour get close to full a few times. I'd believe Broadway gets full. Brisbane (Fortitude Valley) is often full.

 

[moa999]

I went to Broadway shopping centre this morning

Connection with your 3rd and 5th para.

Nick Kyrgios responds after being called out for 'entitled' parking of his Tesla

A Sydney suburb resident called out Kyrgios on Facebook.

www.tennisworldusa.org

Broadway and Macquarie regularly full, particularly on weekends, but no significant waits.
Think the Melbourne Richmond and Campberwell sites are similar.
Brisbane Fortitude Valley is obviously suffering with Tesla Toombul out of action as the shopping centre is closed post the floods.

 

[aegidius]

Brisbane Fortitude Valley is obviously suffering with Tesla Toombul out of action

Fortitude valley was often full before Toombul even had a supercharger.

 

[Vostok]

Never seen Heatherbrae full. I've not been there too many times, but each time I was the only one there. I have seen Coffs Harbour get close to full a few times. I'd believe Broadway gets full. Brisbane (Fortitude Valley) is often full.

There‘s a photo on Plugshare of Heatherbrae full with one waiting.

Broadway was full this morning until I left