Supercharger - Normal, IL

[NotMandatory]

I wonder why Tesla didn't choose the upper deck for the location where they would have been able to install a solar array at some point in time?

Larry

It could have something to do with the fact that in that area of Illinois, there are thousands of wind farm turbines. If you ever drive along I-55 in Illinois at night, you'll see hundreds of red lights blinking on both sides of the highway from all the giant turbines. Perhaps wind power has a greater share than solar in that area?

 

[Larry Chanin]

It could have something to do with the fact that in that area of Illinois, there are thousands of wind farm turbines. If you ever drive along I-55 in Illinois at night, you'll see hundreds of red lights blinking on both sides of the highway from all the giant turbines. Perhaps wind power has a greater share than solar in that area?

Thanks for the response, but why would that stop Tesla from offsetting their energy use by installing a PV array on the upper parking deck?
Larry

 

[jvonbokel]

View attachment 23692

Am I reading this right... Output 410V @ 210A = 86.1kW?

I would assume that the "Supercharger 120" would mean 120kW, so I'm guessing I'm just misunderstanding the numbers.

 

[FlasherZ]

Yeah, the input specs don't line up, either... 160 amps @ 480VAC is 77 kW, and 280A @ 240V is only 67 kW. Can't explain it.

(EDIT: yes I can, thanks to drees for pointing out my rather stupid error. So much for doing this on vacation. )

That said, we've seen from the car's display that the output can be @ 275A for one car when it first starts charging, so I can't explain that either.

The "3PH+N+GND" for 480V vs. "3PH+GND" does add evidence to my theory that they use L-N for 480VAC 3-phase wye, and a L-L for 240VAC 3-phase delta.

 

[Dave EV]

Yeah, the input specs don't line up, either... 160 amps @ 480VAC is 77 kW, and 280A @ 240V is only 67 kW. Can't explain it.

That said, we've seen from the car's display that the output can be @ 275A for one car when it first starts charging, so I can't explain that either.

The "3PH+N+GND" for 480V vs. "3PH+GND" does add evidence to my theory that they use L-N for 480VAC 3-phase wye, and a L-L for 240VAC 3-phase delta.

I don't claim at all to know what you're talking about in the last sentence, but I ran the numbers through a 3-phase power calculator in your first sentence and for 3-phase I come out to 133 kW for 480V/160A and 116 KW for 240V/280A.

 

[FlasherZ]

I don't claim at all to know what you're talking about in the last sentence, but I ran the numbers through a 3-phase power calculator in your first sentence and for 3-phase I come out to 133 kW for 480V/160A and 116 KW for 240V/280A.

Wow, yeah, I shouldn't do this when on vacation. 3PH power on a wye system is 3 * L-N voltage * current, so 3 * 277 * 160 is 132.9 kW. 3PH power on a delta system is 3 * (L-L voltage / sqrt(3)) * current, so 3 * (240/sqrt(3)) * 280 is 116.4 kW.

However, looking at the output (DC), 410V @ 210A continuous is only 86 kW, so there's still something not quite right (unless the efficiency is only 74%).

- - - Updated - - -

I don't claim at all to know what you're talking about in the last sentence

They specify the need for a neutral in the 480VAC line-to-line configuration, which means they wire the chargers from neutral-to-line, or 277VAC. This would permit the use of the existing chargers on a high-voltage 3-phase configuration.

 

[Liz G]

Meanwhile, Liz's brain has started to overheat. :scared:

 

[Dave EV]

However, looking at the output (DC), 410V @ 210A continuous is only 86 kW, so there's still something not quite right (unless the efficiency is only 74%).

Note that it clearly says that the continuous rating is 210A. NEC defines a continuous load as a 3-hour load.

For a non-continuous load (and a SuperCharger qualifies since it shouldn't run for more than 30 minutes or so, at 120kW for even less time than that before dropping down to < 210A), they are probably going to exceed 210A by a good margin. I'd guess they are going to push at least 250A which would get them to 100 kW - still a bit short - they might let it peak close to 300A for a short period of time simply to get the "120kW" rating. Or maybe they're going by the AC input, but that's not typical for charger ratings.

They specify the need for a neutral in the 480VAC line-to-line configuration, which means they wire the chargers from neutral-to-line, or 277VAC. This would permit the use of the existing chargers on a high-voltage 3-phase configuration.

Or maybe they simply having some electronics which needs 277VAC or less and running it on single-phase by running a neutral is easier than 3-phase? I can't imagine they are going to push a big load through the neutral - the utilities generally don't like that much and would prefer that you balance your load over all 3 phases.

 

[SFOTurtle]

It's still REALLY fast.

 

[FlasherZ]

Note that it clearly says that the continuous rating is 210A. NEC defines a continuous load as a 3-hour load.

Which would be fine, except that ratings are rarely published in this way.

Or maybe they simply having some electronics which needs 277VAC or less and running it on single-phase by running a neutral is easier than 3-phase? I can't imagine they are going to push a big load through the neutral - the utilities generally don't like that much and would prefer that you balance your load over all 3 phases.

They won't push a big load through the neutral. They're using the voltage between L-N, but the power distribution is balanced such that the neutral really won't be used. It's the same thing with your home service -- many of your loads are 120V but they're balanced across the legs such that many of them cancel each other out. The neutral conductor is only used to handle the imbalance between legs.

 

[PeterK]

Thanks for the response, but why would that stop Tesla from offsetting their energy use by installing a PV array on the upper parking deck?
Larry

I think NotMandatory's assumption is that Tesla might buy clean power from a local wind farm instead - perhaps?

While traveling on business I've often parked in the adjacent Marriott deck while the new train/bus station and this deck were under construction. These decks are usually not that full. Chargers on the roof would force Tesla owners to drive up and down additional levels, inconveniencing them and resulting in more car traffic. Also a carport-style PV array on the roof would still leave the charger spaces much more exposed to wind, rain and snow than on a lower level. And the PV array doesn't have to be adjacent to the chargers - they could always put PVs on the roof later.

 

[Larry Chanin]

And the PV array doesn't have to be adjacent to the chargers - they could always put PVs on the roof later.

Hi Peter,

Makes sense.

Larry

 

[bluefuego]

I think NotMandatory's assumption is that Tesla might buy clean power from a local wind farm instead - perhaps?

While traveling on business I've often parked in the adjacent Marriott deck while the new train/bus station and this deck were under construction. These decks are usually not that full. Chargers on the roof would force Tesla owners to drive up and down additional levels, inconveniencing them and resulting in more car traffic. Also a carport-style PV array on the roof would still leave the charger spaces much more exposed to wind, rain and snow than on a lower level. And the PV array doesn't have to be adjacent to the chargers - they could always put PVs on the roof later.

My assumption as well having driven through the area - not quite thousands, but there are def. hundreds of wind turbines in Central Illinois (actually those pulsing red lights were an eerie sight driving up to Chicago one night after many years not yet knowing that all those turbines had been erected!) Looking around on the interwebs it looks like much of that electricity is transmitted out (even out of state), so I don't know what are the source percentage (coal vs wind, etc) whicg power Bloomington.

I personally am thankful that it is not on the top deck.. recharging in the winters would not be fun!

Found this while looking around as well: Bloomington/Normal is trying to establish itself as EVTown. See this website.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I personally am thankful that it is not on the top deck.. recharging in the winters would not be fun!

Yes, that was a oversight on my part being from Florida. :redface:

As was pointed out by Peter there's always the possibility of locating the PV array on the top deck while the charging locations are sheltered.

Larry

 

[mknox]

Chargers on the roof would force Tesla owners to drive up and down additional levels, inconveniencing them and resulting in more car traffic.

It would also inconvenience Tesla by having to pay a lot more to route power cabling up top. I suspect the location was largely influenced by proximity to the electrical room.

 

[zerompg]

Update June 16, 2013

A lot was done this week. Here is a pic of the circuit breaker box, about 3' x 4', wow

 

[Jdcleary]

Liz - where do you plan on charging in Northern IL, WI, or MI? I would like to go to Upper Peninsula (Yooper!) MI this summer but even RV parks are scarce north of WI Dells.

Thanks!

Did you see my post regarding the potential charger in Florence, WI? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...locations-as-a-bridge-to-Super-Chargers/page5

I should know the details in a couple of weeks.

I'm also looking for Tesla owners with HPWCs that can help me get from Florence back through Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis and Springfield, MO on July 14 to July 16.

 

[jvonbokel]

Here is a pic of the circuit breaker box, about 3' x 4', wow

I have (almost) no idea what I'm looking at, but I still find it thrilling! :biggrin: Thanks for the update, zerompg!

 

[Alfafoxtrot1]

I have business in Champaign, IL on July 1 that should take about an hour. I won't make it there and back from North of Chicago in my 60kwh unless the SC is done. Driving my wife's SUV won't be tragic, but not my preference. So, what's the over/under?

 

[kevincwelch]

I have (almost) no idea what I'm looking at, but I still find it thrilling! :biggrin: Thanks for the update, zerompg!

Oh, come on, now. There are clearly circuits and breakers! It's all ball bearings these days!