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Superchargers shorten life of battery?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by kmcdds, May 25, 2018.

  1. kmcdds

    kmcdds Member

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    Had my Tesla Wall Connector installed yesterday by an electrician who is on the Tesla list of electricians for my area. He seemed knowledgeable and said to avoid Superchargers whenever possible because they shorten the life of the battery.
    Has anyone else been told this? He also recommended we leave the charging end draped over the top of the holder because he’s seen some cases where it has fallen out of the holster and been damaged when it hit the floor.
     
  2. docherf

    docherf Member

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  3. Derek Kessler

    Derek Kessler Active Member

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    Frequent Supercharging can degrade battery capacity over time, as can frequently charging to 100%. It's best to only use Superchargers for long distance travel. I won't tell you not to use them at all, since that severely limits the range of your car, but definitely don't use them all the time. Since you've got a HPWC and can charge quickly at home, you'll be fine.

    As for stowing the charge cable? Yeah, that makes sense. It's also quicker and easier!
     
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  4. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    Does anyone have an idea of what frequently means?

    Once a week, month, year???
     
  5. Derek Kessler

    Derek Kessler Active Member

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    I'd say 3+ times a week. Every Tesla will eventually experience Supercharger throttling, it's just a matter of how long it takes to get there because of how many Supercharger sessions it racks up. Tesla hasn't been clear on where the threshold is, in part because there are many factors at play (how long you Supercharge, how hot it is when you do, to what level your charge the battery, etc). If you're relying on Superchargers as your only charging option, you'll eventually be in a world of hurt.

    I suspect this is part of the reason the Urban Superchargers are lower power so they have less of a detrimental impact on the battery for frequent users.
     
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  6. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    HEAT is what will kill your battery capacity.

    Heat is generated when you charge rapidly, or discharge rapidly.

    Charging to 100% on a Supercharger will tend to generate a lot of heat.

    Charging at home on your HPWC will not cause your battery to over-heat.

    Just enjoy your Tesla, drive it as much as you can. Supercharge as much as you can on these trips, but for local driving just charge at home, overnight.

    For me, I plan my charging and driving around the 50% mark. My car is set to charge every night up to 70%. That is enough to give me all the driving I need to do on a daily basis and still have 30% or more left at the end of the day.

    When we go on trips I charge to 100% before leaving, then set the limit to 90%. When we arrive at a Supercharger I plan to stay there long enough to get the miles I need to get to the next Supercharger + 20% cushion. Sometimes we arrive with more than 20%, sometimes less. If we end up staying at a Supercharger longer, then we just have more reserve when we get to the next Supercharger, and need less time to get the charge we want.
     
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  7. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    I have 160k miles on my Model S. 60% of my miles were driven using Superchargers. So basically 90k miles worth of Supercharging. It equates to aprox 900 Supercharging sessions. My battery degradation is right in the middle of other cars with similar age and miles. Here is how I look at it. Use the car the way you need it and want it. The purpose of a car is to get you from A to B and enjoy. It's not an end in itself.
     
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  8. kmcdds

    kmcdds Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I have a fairly short commute to work each day. Let’s say I charge it to 70% the first night with my HPWC and it takes me 3 or 4 days to get to 30%. Am I best not to charge it again until I get to 30% or am I fine topping it up to 70% each night just as a matter of routine without shortening the battery life at all?
     
  9. Cirrus MS100D

    Cirrus MS100D Member

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    Just charge it every night and you’ll be fine. No need to always let it run down- what if you want to do a spontaneous longer trip on Thursday, but only have 30%?

    The battery degradation stuff is really much ado about nothing for most people.
     
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  10. Viv ki Bijli

    Viv ki Bijli Member

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    This is what I was told by Tesla employee when I visited to check on my delivery.

    Charge at home as much as possible.
    Always keep the charge between 20-80%. Anything less or more impacts battery life
    Superchargers are good but use it only when you are on long road trip. Do not make it a daily or weeekly habit as it also impacts the life of battery.
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    It can't impact the life very much because I use them whenever I go on trips and after 108K miles and five years, as best I can tell, I'm down less than 4%. I use 90% rather than 80% because when I used 80% the range started to go down. Bringing it back up to 90% brought the range back up after a few charges. Every so often (less than once a month) I charge to over 93% so that the balancing circuits kick in.
     
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  12. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    #12 Graffi, May 26, 2018
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
    If it takes you a few days to use 40% of your battery and you do not foresee the need of extra range unexpectedly, then reduce your daily limit to 60% to further reduce the stress on the battery. However, in my uneducated opinion, the difference in stress of charging from 60% to 70% is very small. Going from 70% to 80% the stress jumps up much greater. Going from 80% to 90% the additional stress is even GREATER, etc. If 70% works for you, then just leave it there until the day you actually do need the miles that will take you below 20%. In these cases, charge to 80%, or even 90% or 100% for that day.

    Additionally, discharging below 30% will cause stress on the battery. The lower the discharge the greater the stress. This is why I plan for 20% reserve when on trips. Those VERY few times when I have gone below 10%, once even down near 0%, it did cause stress on the battery, but not enough to worry about. Now if I did this EVERY DAY it would begin to cause a lot of stress on the battery.

    This is why the 50% state of charge, and the daily range be +- around the 50% mark, is the ideal place to be for long term health of your battery. For me, I plan to keep this Model S, and our Model 3 D that we are waiting on, for the 1 Million miles promised by Elon.

    We had our 2013 Nissan Leaf for over 3.5 years and 50,000 miles. In that time we left the charge setting at 80% daily and only charged to 100% about once per month for battery cell balancing. During that time our range and battery capacity only went down less than 5 miles. We were very happy with the Leaf as a daily commuter/local driving vehicle and had planned to keep it "forever" (meaning until we got our Model 3 and passed the Leaf on to our daughter). But, alas, that Ford F-150 that smashed the left rear of our baby ended those dreams. jmho
     
  13. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Agree. Supercharging frequently has been shown to have minimal impact on degradation. The only ones it really affects are the 90 kWh packs.
     
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  14. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    Add another one to the list of owners who regularly supercharge and haven't had any serious negative effects. Five years of ownership, over 100,000 miles total between a P85 and P85D and our battery capacity seems to be in line with others.
     
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  15. GreenT

    GreenT Member

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    Speaking about HEAT. And my apologies for slightly hijacking this thread ...
    I charge my 75,000 miles car on my HPWC weekly or more.
    How hot should the handle get?
    I can barely touch mine when it is in the middle of a charge. 60 mile per hour draw.
    I moved last year and seem to recall at my last location not having this issue?

    Could this be because my electrician here didn't install it correctly? Could the connections behind the HPWC cover be loose?

    At superchargers where the rate is far higher I would expect it to be hotter than at my house.
     
  16. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    I am not an exert, and hopefully one will reply, but you may try lowering the Max Amps the car will allow. Keep lowering it each time and check the temp of the handle. Check each time, trying to be consistant with state of charge, time it has been charging, etc. You will probably find an Amp rate that will not allow the handle to heat up. Just a thought....
     
  17. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Warm but not "ouchie" hot. Inspect the plug and open the HPWC box to see if there is any discolouration. If there is, contact Tesla. In the meantime, adjust the amps lower in the car. There is little difference in charging efficiency between 80 and 32 amps. Below 32 amps efficiency drops dramatically. And has others have said, the slower the charging, the less heat is generated.

    A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla, so plug in whenever possible. Even when it doesn't need to charge, it wakes up and may charge the 12V battery or run the battery cooler (or heater when it's cold). There's no good reason to not keep it plugged in whenever possible.
     
  18. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Jeff Dahn, a well known battery expert, said it makes very little difference in degradation if you charge 20% daily or wait 2 or three days and then charge 40 or 60%.
     
  19. Candleflame

    Candleflame Member

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    afaik the throtteling is all about DC charging sessions. - regardless of whether you charge slow or fast. The original "discoverer" apparently spent a lot of time using slow chademo 45kw chargers which led to the throtteling. understandable that he is upset, given that he is barely charging faster than the built in AC charger...
     
  20. RedModel3

    RedModel3 Member

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    OK, I'm confused. I've been driving a 2012 Chevy Volt while I wait for my 3. I bought it used, and I've had it two years. In that time, I plug in all the time, and I charge and discharge fully almost every single day. I haven't noticed any problems with degradation. Is the Volt's battery that much different than a fully electric car battery?
     

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