Superchargers slowing

[David99]

To put this in perspective, cross country road trip in 2018 averaged 50-55 mph including stops. Never used more than 67% of the battery. Most charges were 55% or 140 miles or a little less.

Now with chargegate, I find the going from 30-80% takes 21% longer than it used to.

That turns out to be about a 10% decrease in cross country speed. Not fun, but not a big deal as long as you have 85Kw battery or larger..

Remember that the reduction in charge speed at the supercharger is not the same for all cars. Some see a small reduction, some a significant one. I have seen mine go down over the years. Now an 80% charge takes almost on hour. That used to be 30 min.
Anything higher is far worse. A 95% charge now takes 2 hours. Since my range has also been cut I often have to charge higher than I used to. This results in a significant increase in charge time for road trips.

 

[kaidou]

Well, in my case, SC charging speed is pretty constant ( I do lots of long-range trips).
Since August of last year, my charging time from 20-80 has reduced from 30 minutes to 50-60 minutes.
As a result, my long-distance trip time has significantly increased. It's frustrating, and I feel like I am being forced by Tesla to buy a newer vehicle.

 

[Geniko]

Wish there was a class action to get these vehicles fixed or at least where we had them at. It’s like buying a CPU for a computer then a problem from the factory comes up with them throttling your GHz by 50%.

 

[mayhews72]

I know the idea may be tempting but it’s a really illogical idea. If you do that you are telling them what they did is just fine, actually more than that, you are rewarding them. And when they decide to chargegate and/or batterygate the 100 kWh packs (I’m pretty confident they will at some point) you will be in the same position again but they will have more of your $$$.

I agree with this. My 2015 S85 is overdue replacement, but I won't be spending a penny until Tesla resolve these issues for the early adopters. I simply don't trust them not to do the same to newer cars in a couple of years time.

 

[Geniko]

I’m just hoping whatever fails on my vehicle fails within the warranty. Knowing their monopoly on parts and high labor costs it will be a hefty repair.

 

[David99]

I agree with this. My 2015 S85 is overdue replacement, but I won't be spending a penny until Tesla resolve these issues for the early adopters. I simply don't trust them not to do the same to newer cars in a couple of years time.

That's exactly the concern I have. Getting a new car would solve all the issues and give me the top of the line performance on all levels back. But know how Tesla is deliberately pushing the batteries to the limit to get ahead of the competition, it is more than likely the same will happen again down the line. And you can't just refuse software updates any more. It is part of the warranty now. You are required to install software updates for get warranty coverage. Just that fact alone tells me that Tesla knows they will have to adjust things down the line.

Elon's generous warranty from back in 2014 is just a broken promise now.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

To put this in perspective, cross country road trip in 2018 averaged 50-55 mph including stops. Never used more than 67% of the battery. Most charges were 55% or 140 miles or a little less.

Now with chargegate, I find the going from 30-80% takes 21% longer than it used to.

That turns out to be about a 10% decrease in cross country speed. Not fun, but not a big deal as long as you have 85Kw battery or larger..

This sounds about right, though I haven’t kept accurate records. It’s definitely noticeable, impacting overall driving times and daily distances, though not stopping me from road trips.

I just finished a WA to TX and back trip in my 2015 70D. Max charge rate was 108 KW, but usually closer to 85-90 KW even at low SOC and >100 mi warmed battery. Prior years I’ve seen 112-115 KW max. I’m used to arriving at less than 10% SOC, so that’s not a problem. Many of my SC intervals are 100-150 mi with no alternatives, so charging above 70% is normal, especially in winter and with high interstate speeds. My biggest problem has been predicting the unpredictable amount of slowdowns due to road construction or traffic. Case and point: On one leg I might leave with a 5% SOC arrival prediction, but actually arrive with 20% due to 10 mi stuck behind a semi at 45 mph in a single lane construction area. The next leg, I might see smooth sailing, but require slowing down because of a headwind (or loss of the previous interval’s tailwind). Any time I arrive with more than 7% SOC, I consider it a failure to leave earlier at the previous SC.

 

[David99]

Any time I arrive with more than 7% SOC, I consider it a failure to leave earlier at the previous SC.

I know exactly what you mean. I was obsessed with optimizing charge vs drive times on trips. After 5 years of OCD on road trips I realized it really doesn't matter if I don't arrive at the idea SoC and save 2 minutes. I'm also affected by #batterygate and my car has shut down with 5 miles before 0 so I'm cool arriving at 10% now

 

[Kmartyn]

New to Tesla this summer, so it will be a long while before I have to deal with this, but reading up, to understand what to expect. Here is how I see it so far:

The batteries you are seeing reduced charging speeds and degradation on are a generation with an expected useable life of 300k miles. Some of you are moving in on that. Current generation has an expected life of 500k. So this should not be a significant issue for myself and others with newer vehicles. Next generation of batteries expected to be 1 million miles, but doubt the rest of the car will last that long.

Even though the batteries are out of warranty, Tesla is making changes to Charging speeds maximize their life. Perhaps what they should do, is give you the option of faster charging, but reduced battery life?

I guess those buying a used higher mileage Tesla, should be able to get some type of battery health report. Heavy use of supercharging reduces battery performance.

 

[Kmartyn]

Wish there was a class action to get these vehicles fixed or at least where we had them at. It’s like buying a CPU for a computer then a problem from the factory comes up with them throttling your GHz by 50%.

I see a battery as a consumable product, that gets chemically used up over time, and show decreasing performance. Even after 1 year there is some degradation. A CPU is not consumable, and does not degrade with time.

Fortunately, the time period and mileage for the battery to dramatically degrade, is currently longer than the mileage most people keep a vehicle for, But could be a concern for used car buyers.

 

[David99]

I see a battery as a consumable product, that gets chemically used up over time, and show decreasing performance. Even after 1 year there is some degradation. A CPU is not consumable, and does not degrade with time.

Fortunately, the time period and mileage for the battery to dramatically degrade, is currently longer than the mileage most people keep a vehicle for, But could be a concern for used car buyers.

There is natural degradation that occurs to all batteries. We all knew and expected that. The issue with #batterygate is Tesla's adjustments made to cars with software updates. Those are not 'natural' or due to battery aging, they are administered bandaids by Tesla. Owners who haven't updated are not seeing all these limitations. I'd be fine with the 12% degradation I saw before the software update. Now it's 27% but the other limitations actually take off even more indirectly.

Tesla has also completely refused to show any user or CPO buyer any battery health data. Even when asking for a battery diagnostic at the service center they will not let you see it or tell you any info. Of course this is illegal when you payed for it so when pressed they will quickly waive the fee.

BTW, yes CPUs are not consumables, but flash memory chips are and that's actually another issue older Tesla cars are running into. Their chips are wearing out from the excessive data logging Tesla has done. I had mine replaced by a third party because Tesla only offers a complete MCU replacement for more than $3000

 

[noah82]

At what point is this not "super" charging anymore?

 

[aerodyne]

When you cant charge as fast as Chademo, or....Oh now I see you are below 50Kw....

 

[David_Cary]

The batteries are all still under warranty (ok - mostly). Remember it is 8 years and the 85kwh were unlimited mileage.
I have a 2015 70D who hasn't seen 100 kw since the reduction. Mostly 70kw but admit that I haven't done much.
I see this whole thing as a learning experience for Tesla and not a repeating pattern. Perhaps that is the optimist view. But the reality is that the whole world is still learning about battery degradation. Tesla has the largest fleet with the most mileage. They learned that super charging was causing degradation - at least when batteries got older. So they made adjustments.
Hopefully - they have made tweaks and it isn't the situation anymore. It is interesting that as they slowed older cars, they were able to speed up newer cars - by a lot. That makes me think they have made chemistry/cooling changes.

I can tell you travelling with a M3LR is a thing of beauty. We have the aeros on and getting 146 kw is twice as fast (on a per mile basis) as the 70D did when new. Not to mention starting with 325.... and we get it at 70 mph.

 

[aerodyne]

"Even when asking for a battery diagnostic at the service center they will not let you see it or tell you any info. "

I thought if I asked nicely, and paid a fee, they would at least show me some parameters like # WOT, SuC sessions, Charging/ Regen KW, etc. I am the second owner, and the car was a Store demo before that...

Now, I am afraid if I show up at the SC they will push a unwanted update on me.

I have loaded Scan my Tesla,and viewed your helpful YT vid, but am looking for a good local source for the hardware. I am aware of the German and Canadian sources...can you recommend something local, or a way to build my own using a source like Fry's?

 

[aerodyne]

And you can't just refuse software updates any more. It is part of the warranty now.

I have heard that on the other Tesla board, but I don't see it in the current New Vehicle Warranty. Only if you fail to respond to a service alert. "Failure to maintain the car will not affect the warranty" in the first warranty FAQ...

IMO updates are not service alerts...of course, Tesla can and will do whatever suits them, if they feel the need..

As the Doug Adams character says, "resistance is futile"

 

[Lasttoy]

I plugged in Friday, started at 47, man next to me in a 2014 S with 50k miles was charging at 85. He freaked when he saw mine dip to 35.
The car is useless for trips now , must spend the night in hotel to get to DC now, added 3 hours to trip.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

I'll add my anecdotal evidence from my recent visit, explicitly to see how far my charge rate has dropped:

2015 S85D, 53k miles
First time supercharging since Mar18
No one charging at SC
Ambient 55°F
Arrived w/ 7% battery (19 mi) remaining after driving 8 miles
Charging level set to 90%
Projected charge time of 55 min
Initial spike to 120 kW, immediate drop to 80 kW with slow/steady ramp down
Departed after 15 min charging
Final stats - gained 24% (60 mi), rate at 70 kW when unplugged

 

[Barf]

I'll add my anecdotal evidence from my recent visit, explicitly to see how far my charge rate has dropped:

2015 S85D, 53k miles
First time supercharging since Mar18
No one charging at SC
Ambient 55°F
Arrived w/ 7% battery (19 mi) remaining after driving 8 miles
Charging level set to 90%
Projected charge time of 55 min
Initial spike to 120 kW, immediate drop to 80 kW with slow/steady ramp down
Departed after 15 min charging
Final stats - gained 24% (60 mi), rate at 70 kW when unplugged

Exact same experience.
Spiked to 110kw then very quickly ramped down.
It took 25 minutes to add 80 miles.
2014 85 with 65000 miles.

I only SC on trips ~2-3x a year.

 

[xbox4me62]

Chademo is capped now too. I would previously get 47kw. Now fastest I’ve seen is 29kw. And service center only says “sorry that’s not our charger” even when I showed a video unplugging my slow MS and plugging in a leaf that instantly got 50kw

When you cant charge as fast as Chademo, or....Oh now I see you are below 50Kw....