Superchargers super-slow

[WannabeOwner]

Doing our first 2600 mile round trip in March. ABRP showing 5+ hrs one way to charge

Seems harsh, but obviously depends on whether you have to charge into "taper".

Does EV Trip Planner say anything different?

I reliably get 50 miles / 10 minutes up to 70%, and not much less than that up to 80%, so call it 300 MPH Supercharge charge rate.

Worst case: assuming you leave home / arrive on empty (obviously not possible!) and all the rest is Supercharging then that is 2,600 / 300 = 8.7 hours charging time - 10+ hours (round-trip) looks pessimistic to me??

At the other, optimistic, end of the scale: assuming 100% on departure, arrive empty (that's not possible either!), destination charging available then you can save, say, 200 miles x 4 on a round trip, so the absolute best would be (2,600 - (4 x 200) ) / 300 = 6 hours (round-trip) Supercharging.

 

[tyson]

FWIW EvTripp Planner shows around the same charge times for my trip between NC and IA as the car did along the ride. The actual charge times were quite a bit longer.

 

[Joe F]

Does EV Trip Planner say anything different?

Yep, by 1 minute less.

1285 miles, 10% buffer 5:46 total charge time (EVTP) vs.
1290 miles, 10% buffer 5:47 total charge time (ABRP)

Used 65 deg ext/int for EVTP, speed 1X each, initial charge 100% each, wind 12 MPH (unknown future guess), 70% arrival charge for ABRP (car will be parked 9 days, VAMPIRE garlic charge.)

Didn't want to factor destination charge times because 9 days parked without charger access, but will probably do the trip in 2 12 hour chunks so will get a 100% charge at the half way point early AM.

 

[tls]

I agree something's up. I'd assumed it was just aging of my battery, since I never see _initial_ charge rates above 116-117kW now (used to see 119-120). But the taper seems to start much earlier in the charge now and drop further too. Even at brand-new SCs like Tarrytown.

Either it's a mass delusion or there has been a deliberate change to the taper on Tesla's side. If so, I might be inclined to shrug and accept the inconvenience if they'd at least own up to it and offer a rationale -- the dead air and usual inconsistent answers from the SvCs others have mentioned here are worrisome.

 

[tyson]

I agree something's up. I'd assumed it was just aging of my battery, since I never see _initial_ charge rates above 116-117kW now (used to see 119-120). But the taper seems to start much earlier in the charge now and drop further too. Even at brand-new SCs like Tarrytown.

Either it's a mass delusion or there has been a deliberate change to the taper on Tesla's side. If so, I might be inclined to shrug and accept the inconvenience if they'd at least own up to it and offer a rationale -- the dead air and usual inconsistent answers from the SvCs others have mentioned here are worrisome.

Which model/year etc do you have? When I was doing my long road trip I do not remember seeing above 90kW at any charger. This is on a 2012 P85. I am seeing if the SvC will give me any of the data now....

 

[Maximapolak]

120kW?

I've seen a max of 92kW on mine and it never took 2 hours to fill (if an hour even).

 

[tyson]

Ya, no dice on data... Not allowed to give it out. I figured as much.

 

[tyson]

120kW?

I've seen a max of 92kW on mine and it never took 2 hours to fill (if an hour even).

I get the feeling that soft limited cars will charge faster to "full" as you are not reaching the top end of the physical pack.

 

[apacheguy]

I agree something's up. I'd assumed it was just aging of my battery, since I never see _initial_ charge rates above 116-117kW now (used to see 119-120). But the taper seems to start much earlier in the charge now and drop further too. Even at brand-new SCs like Tarrytown.

Either it's a mass delusion or there has been a deliberate change to the taper on Tesla's side. If so, I might be inclined to shrug and accept the inconvenience if they'd at least own up to it and offer a rationale -- the dead air and usual inconsistent answers from the SvCs others have mentioned here are worrisome.

Agree. Haven't seen above 116 kw in well over a year. I believe this is not due to battery age, but rather Tesla has lowered the maximum delivery rate in the firmware.

There absolutely has been a change on Teslas side. For one, they are very closely monitoring the handle temperature, something which I proved in another thread (see ref). They certainly did not do anything of the sort until about a year ago.

Some California Superchargers not providing maximum charging rates

 

[apacheguy]

Which model/year etc do you have? When I was doing my long road trip I do not remember seeing above 90kW at any charger. This is on a 2012 P85. I am seeing if the SvC will give me any of the data now....

Tesla will not give you the vehicle logs because they believe the information is "proprietary." The reason you do not see above 90 kw is because you have an early revision pack which does not support 120 kw charging.

 

[brianman]

Haven't seen above 116 kw in well over a year. I believe this is not due to battery age, but rather Tesla has lowered the maximum delivery rate in the firmware.

I saw 115+ KW regularly on my Dec 26th to Jan 7th round-trip from Bellevue, WA to Universal Studios, CA. The trick is to arrive with 5-10% SOC after driving at least 100 miles. Even in the "wow, it's actually < 40F in CA..." weather.

The vehicle was my Dec '14 P85D.

Just another data point.

 

[tyson]

Tesla will not give you the vehicle logs because they believe the information is "proprietary." The reason you do not see above 90 kw is because you have an early revision pack which does not support 120 kw charging.

That makes sense, the early pack part not the logs... So do you know if later packs, like if the pack had to be replaced or rebuilt for any reason, would support the higher supercharging rate?

 

[apacheguy]

I saw 115+ KW regularly on my Dec 26th to Jan 7th round-trip from Bellevue, WA to Universal Studios, CA. The trick is to arrive with 5-10% SOC after driving at least 100 miles. Even in the "wow, it's actually < 40F in CA..." weather.

The vehicle was my Dec '14 P85D.

Just another data point.

Can you be more specific than 115+? Did you see above 116 kw?

 

[Mark Z]

After reading the thread, I am pleased to have enjoyed long cross-country road trips a couple of years ago. No issues at all during those drives.

On the bright side, the added DC charge time should result in less "idle" charges.

 

[wcfinvader]

You guys are rediculous. It is the middle of winter. They only way to get the max charge is to start charging with a very low charge rate and warm battery. We recently went from Aurora, Nebraska to Chicago and it only took about a hour longer when compared to a ice with fueling stops. Each stop we entered with less than 10 rated miles left and we always got the usual max charge rate of 116-119 kwh. We always charged as soon as we got there (not allowing it to cool off). There are many variables when it comes to charge speed, the biggest being pairing and battery temp. By the way now dashed lines does not indicate a fully warmed battery. We noticed slowed charge speeds on our HPWC when the car didn't show yellow dashed lines. Did Tesla update our car to slow the charge speed!? No it's all due to the battery warming up first. It does take significant time to warm the battery but we have never seen it take ao long that we have reduced supercharing speed but then againd we only use superchargers for long distance travel. We do ~40k miles a year so we would be the first to admit if there was any slowdown. If anyone wants to do the math we left Oak Park, IL at 05:50 and arrived home at 16:15. Remember getting to a supercharger with a fully warmed battery & very low rated miles (less than 10) is the only way to guarantee the best charging speed possible (not counting the pairing speed reduction of course but we've never encountered that here in the Midwest).

 

[apacheguy]

@wcfinvader - actually plugging in with less than 10 miles is a sure fire way to ensure a very slow supercharging experience. A number of owners have reported that Tesla changed the ramp up at low SOC and it takes a considerable time for the car to even accept a charge.

 

[wcfinvader]

@wcfinvader - actually plugging in with less than 10 miles is a sure fire way to ensure a very slow supercharging experience. A number of owners have reported that Tesla changed the ramp up at low SOC and it takes a considerable time for the car to even accept a charge.

On our Classic 85 we've never witnessed that. We always have the normal ramp up to the normal max charge rate. Maybe newer or older battery versions perform different? Ours always performs best as far as supercharge rate goes if we get there with 10 or less rated miles left (I know that's cutting it too close for some).

 

[apacheguy]

On our Classic 85 we've never witnessed that. We always have the normal ramp up to the normal max charge rate. Maybe newer or older battery versions perform different? Ours always performs best as far as supercharge rate goes if we get there with 10 or less rated miles left (I know that's cutting it too close for some).

Perhaps you are right. This might be related to the newer pack design. See here for an example:

Use L2 charger instead of Supercharger when battery is cold with very low SoC

The fact that the supercharger did not provided any power and yet the vehicle charged normally on L2 indicates that it is more than cold temps at play.

 

[eye.surgeon]

Ok, I thought it was just me. The other night I stopped at the Dedham' MA supercharger (I stop there maybe once a month) and I was at ~40-50 kw charging. I have a refreshed limited 60kwh S, and that is a rate much lower than I've seen. it was about 10pm, I was the only one there, and battery was not cold / overly hot. I figured it was being limited, but hadn't seen anything on the boards.

Your post is indicative of what the real problem is. At 10 PM in Dedham MA in January, it was probably ~30 degrees ambient temp. And you say your battery wasn't cold? I promise you it was quite cold. That's way below optimal temperatures required for max charging speed.

 

[CT200h]

It would seem several different reasons for low charge rates at supercharger.

1. Local power restrictions (grid throttle)
2. Supercharger has internal problem (i.e. Some of the chargers are dead or weak)
3. Car is throttling down do to low pack temperature?

4. Car is throttling down due to some new software program we don't know about maybe to protect battery or maybe just a mistake in programming.

What did I miss?