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Superchargers Visited

Discussion in 'Wiki' started by Wiki, Mar 2, 2014.

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  1. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Too bad I'm not there right now. :) Looks like a 5.6 mph tailwind on I-10 from Ozona to the I-10 / I-20 intersection a little before Van Horn. Good thing I'm not trying to drive down from Albuquerque to El Paso and into the 11.5 mph headwind. Yep, I'll definitely give it a thought but having Midland not too far of a detour away will probably win since I doubt I'll visit West Texas again anytime soon.

    Wind map_2018-02-22_Midland_TX.jpg
     
  2. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    I hadn't noticed the average speed error on that last segment (65 vs 75). My recollection of the drive was that the truck traffic was relatively light and not moving much faster than me when I was doing 61 - 63. Anyway, if you need Midland maybe it's a moot point.

    Why were your interior temperatures so high relative to the outside per TeslaFi?
     
  3. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Well, I also need just about everything west of Houston and Dallas and might route the trip down I-20 from Dallas to El Paso and grab 9 chargers rather than across I-10 from Houston to El Paso for 7 chargers. It just depends how much extra time I have and if I enter TX from Lake Charles or Shreveport or OKC.

    Now that I know it is 1,000 ft elevation climb into El Paso there is a chance I could drive across I-40 from OKC to Albuquerque and make the return trip head downhill on I-10 from El Paso to Van Horn to Ozona. Lots of options but it depends where the previous day or so has me going.

    upload_2018-2-24_7-43-20.png



    Good question. On the Brush to Denver leg that's easy as the HVAC was off so that was the natural interior temp of the trip in the afternoon with the sun heating up the car.

    On the Ogallala to Brush leg, it looks like the HVAC was only on from 4:15 pm to 5:15 pm (per the drive stats) and I turned it on when the Outside temp dipped quickly below 70° F and ironically happened to turn it off when the Outside temp rose above 70° F but I wasn't monitoring the Outside temp so that was just accidental timing.

    Here are the drive stats for Ogallala to Brush.

    upload_2018-2-24_8-33-32.png
     
  4. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    What's your 90% and 100% range? Over the past 3 months (Dec to today) my 90% range is 239.1 miles and my 100% range is 267.6 miles. I charged 23 times to 90% at superchargers, HPWC, and even 120v home destination chargers. I charged 8 times to 100% at the same variety of chargers.

    I'm basically a 75D at this point since I have a max range of ~265 miles so drives that consume 220 miles of range are almost out of the question since it requires almost a full charge and that is not an effective use of time when not staying >2 hrs somewhere and most of my supercharger visits are 15-30 minutes.
     
  5. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    My 90% is 256 miles and by extrapolation my 100% is 284 - I haven't actually charged to 100% in a while - probably not since the trip last fall. I routinely charge to 90% at home. My S90D has 50,363 miles on it (since June 2016).

    That seems like a lot of range to lose - have you asked Tesla about it?
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Thanks for confirming I have more degradation than should be normal. I haven't asked Tesla about it yet.

    In the battery infographic from Belgium, I noticed that I have more range loss but I also hit 62,000 miles (~100,000 km) MUCH sooner than 4-5 yrs. I don't know if that means it should degrade more or less than a vehicle that is actually 4-5 yrs old instead of 1.5 yrs old (which is about when I hit 62k).

    I forget, but I assume your S90D is also throttled like mine to 95 kW max supercharging?
     
  7. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    Yes, that's been my experience when charging. I've never seen anything above 95 kW since the first few months of ownership. Remind me why that is!
     
  8. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    #988 Darren S, Feb 25, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    I've given up trying to find the exact reason and a straight answer from someone or keeping track of all the threads or pages that give reasons. It happened in late-Oct 2016 and ~26,000 miles and about the 200th total supercharger visited but was mid-way back from a cross-country trip so it was very noticeable. I didn't take many long trips that Winter so in Mar 2017 for the Annual Maintenance at ~36,000 miles, I thought I brought it up as a concern for my visit to the Service Center but can't find an email reference to it so it could have been a verbal or phone discussion.

    When I was at the Service Center in mid-May 2017, I spoke with my Service Advisor who replied back that they would get my car logs and "give them to our Lead Tech and he will work with Engineering to get you an answer regarding your supercharging rate." I didn't see it as an item on the Service sheet until July and the next Annual Maintenance at ~48,000 miles. In both cases, I received zero response about it. 2 days later, nothing. 2 weeks later, nothing. 2 months later, nothing. I asked a few times during that timeframe but got zero assistance or response.

    upload_2018-2-25_12-25-1.png

    upload_2018-2-25_12-28-51.png

    The short answer is that they limit the number of fast chargers (>60 kW) to extend the life of the battery. I will just get my popcorn ready and sit back and wait for the fireworks to fly when the first batch of 100D folks start hitting the 95 kW supercharging throttle and want to form a mob to go after Elon.

    Honestly, the TMC Forum and links to the PlugInAmerica and Belgium battery study had the answers I was looking for so I just gave up on Tesla's Tech folks getting back to me. That wasn't the first time and it won't be the last (that they don't respond and that I give up on them). I'm not pleased with their Customer Service on things such as that but obviously nothing is going to change so I've just accepted it.
     
  9. Big Earl

    Big Earl Member

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    There has been quite a bit of speculation on TMC that only the 90 packs have their maximum charge rates limited after a certain number of DC fast charging sessions. Tesla does this to mask problems with this particular battery pack's chemistry (anodes with higher silicon content resulting in more rapid degradation).

    It's also been mentioned that your supercharging speeds will continue to decline as the battery pack's internal resistance increases and as the back's cells get out of balance with one another over time.

    There are several threads discussing this issue. Here is an example: 90 battery pack degradation
     
  10. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Thanks, Big Earl. I know the 85D and older packs don't get throttled but I'm just not sure enough 100D packs have hit ~200 superchargers yet (or whatever the cutoff is for total kWh added). Or, enough 100D folks who are on the Forum to mention it.

    It took me ~26,000 miles in 6 months to hit that and I really doubt there are many 100D folks out there putting that many miles and supercharges on their vehicle.

    Tesla has it noted in the manual for even the Model 3 so I'm secretly hoping they throttle ALL battery packs since the 90D otherwise I'll be a little angry that I paid for the upgraded range but would have been better off sticking with the 85D battery pack.


    I'm following several threads on here about it but the one you listed is new to me so I'll follow it. The other MAJOR issue that is listed in the various threads is a used or CPO vehicle and IF the previous owner (such as me) used it until just prior to being throttled then the next owner gets a vehicle and 5 superchargers later hits the 95 kW throttle constraint.

    It's the same battery pack but that owner has no clue how many times it was supercharged before buying it. When that means an extra 5-10 minutes per supercharger and you are visiting 10 superchargers a day in an 800-mile road trip, it REALLY starts to add up. 10 superchargers * 5 minutes longer = 50 minutes longer (or 100 minutes potentially). That makes an 18-hr day on the road that much longer. It's just annoying that I'm sure they knew full well they were going to throttle the 90D packs but made zero mention of it when selling the car and taking my money and I didn't hear about it officially until well after I hit that throttle level.

    If the throttling had happened within the first few days or weeks of purchasing then I would have taken it back and gotten an 85D or if that had been mentioned prior to purchasing even. So again, there isn't much I can probably do until the battery is 15%+ of range loss and mayyyybe at that point they'd agree to replace it with a new still-going-to-be-throttled 90 kW battery pack or perhaps a v3 or higher 90 kWh pack that has better chemistry and won't be throttled?
     
  11. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    90 battery pack degradation

    That is from another thread but I agree that the outrage about the "claimed hp" or "claimed kWh available" in the P90D was in a lawsuit (in Norway? Sweden?) and owners at least received something back for their troubles. Not much as I recall but it was something and maybe would cover the cost of the upgrade from the 85D to the 90D on delivery day.

    Yes, my max is now 268 miles of range and an 85 RWD new was 265 miles and a 75D new was 258 miles. My original max was 296 miles of range so I'm at ~9.5% range loss

    upload_2018-2-25_13-32-29.png

    I would just prefer to have a 90 kWh pack in the car that performs as it was originally advertised, touted, sold, and what I was under the assumption I was buying. "~120 kW supercharger power" was one of the lines form the Salesperson. I'm lucky to get 95 kW now and that's usually after 10 minutes and not instantly like it used to be. I've got hundreds of logs of charging sessions of every kind and the fact that they came out with v2 and v3 of the 90 kWh packs lets me know there was something wrong with the v1 packs ... like the one in my Jan 2016 S90D.

    This chat can be discussed in the threads about battery degradation and not superchargers visited but it just makes me get to do my trip planning as if I have a 75D and missing 30 miles of range is sometimes the difference between being able to make a supercharger gap (Ozona, TX to Van Horn, TX for example) or having to detour to Midland, TX and add another 1-2 hrs to the trip or having to hit an extra supercharger in a day to make it to the destination. I'm glad more superchargers are being installed so it isn't as bad as it would have been 2 yrs ago but I've just learned to live with it.
     
  12. evp

    evp Nerd

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    In my S85, 3.5 years old, 94K miles -- 100% range has fallen from 265 to 253, about a 4.5% loss. Here's a charging curve I manually collected on a recent road trip. Outside temperature was about 1F, but the battery was warm having just gotten off the Interstate. It seems to have charged for about 5 minutes at over 100kW, then suddenly down to 75-80kW for 15 minutes, then a taper. I don't know if any of this was temperature related.

    Screen Shot 2018-02-28 at 10.29.49 PM.png
     
  13. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    This discussion just recently came up as a topic but now I'm not able to add a super-secret Service Center supercharger as a visited location because, like the Cleveland location, it is not open to the Public. Murphy's Law. I wasn't able to notice this earlier in the day as Mobile Access was disabled during a Service visit.

    Here is a brief chart of the supercharging at 403 V, 109 A, 44 kW, and 256 mi/hr as well as the vehicle's location shown as inside the Service Center and not at the nearby local supercharger. I wasn't certain if they had a supercharger in the Service area but this confirms it.

    Tesla Service Center_supercharging_2018-02-26_1816.jpg
     
  14. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    Clearly SpC's like this shouldn't be counted since they are not at all publicly accessible. Only someone living in the service area would have any chance of using them.
     
  15. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Exactly, which is why I don't think there should be an issue updating the 'Rules' in the first post to not include / count locations like this. To the veterans this is obvious but to new folks just stumbling upon this thread it will be helpful.

    And then have the supercharge.info and PlugShare sites updated at some point to note that it is not a Public location.

    There have been some great discoveries and discussions in the past month regarding the rules but I don't know who has the final word on changing them or modifying the first post.
     
  16. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    I think we all know the answer to this: Only GOD has the final word on this, but in this specific situation only God's duly anointed representative in this forum, Wiki, can change the rules. :)
     
  17. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    Since my name is embedded in the leaderboard with the most edits the most I feel a sense of responsibility. Either PM me or reply with what you want added.
     
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  18. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Going through some old videos I just saw I took a trip that I had forgotten about :)
    I recently also added a few 'local' stations.
    Please add:

    Salina, KS
    Hays, KS
    Goodland, KS
    Limon, CO
    Riverside, CA
    Inyokern, CA
    Mojave, CA
    Lone Pine, CA

    Car still the same: March 2014 Model S 85
     
  19. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    Congrats to the second new Century Club member this year!
    You are updated.
     
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  20. sperrysburg

    sperrysburg Member

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    I apologize again for not editing the table myself. Here is my latest from a couple of cross country trips. Brings me to 222 total. I added 42 new ones. Anyone thinking of driving to Key West should do it. Great drive. Now that I am over 200, this might be my last entry. It was fun when the navigation kept track but I'm finding making sure there are no duplicates and tracking it myself is kind of a burden that distracts from my trip enjoyment. Happy road tripping everyone.

    Culver City, Burbank, Hawthorne (CA), Redondo Beach, Buena Park, Santa Ana, Fountain Valley, Rancho Cucamonga, San Juan Capistrano, Oxnard, Mojave, Tejon Ranch, Bakersfield, Buttonwillow, Cabazon, Barstow, San Diego, Inyokern, Buellton, Inyokern, Indio, Twentynine Palms, Atascadero, Lone Pine, El Centro, Harris Ranch, Primm, Needles, Yuma, Riverside, Beatty, Las Vegas Blvd South, Las Vegas Bridger Ave (NV), Quartzsite, Kingman, Gilroy, Gustine, Fresno, Tonopah, Manteca, Hawthorne (NV), Mountain View, Wickenburg, Fremont, Gila Bend, Scottsdale, Yermo, Buckeye, San Mateo, Gardnerville, St. George, Cordes Lakes, Folsom (Iron Point), Vacaville, Roseville, Rocklin, Petaluma, Truckee (Brockway Rd), Truckee (Donner Pass Rd), Reno, Flagstaff, Casa Grande, Lovelock, Beaver, Corning, Holbrook, Winnemucca, Richfield, Elko, West Wendover, Gallup, Mt. Shasta, Blanding, Tooele, Nephi, Green River, South Salt Lake City, Moab, Farmington, Tremonton, Grand Junction, Grants Pass, Van Horn, El Paso, Deming, Willcox, Tucson, Albuquerque, Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Glenwood Springs, Springfield (OR), Santa Rosa, Silverthorne, Woodburn, The Dalles, Lima (MT), Missoula, Butte, West Yellowstone, Tucumcari, Denver, Lone Tree, Limon, Cheyenne, Brush, Sidney, Bozeman, Ellensburg, Centralia, Big Timber, Amarillo, Billings, Sheridan, Lusk, Gillette, Goodland, Shamrock, Childress, Cisco, Rapid City, Hays, Weatherford, Murdo, Oklahoma City, Perry, Salina, Wichita, Ardmore, San Marcos, Waco, Corsicana, Mitchell, Topeka, Columbus (TX), Channelview, Flatonia, Austin, Junction, Ozona, Midland, Houston, Independence, Worthington, Columbia, Lake Charles, Ogallala, Gothenburg, Grand Island, Lincoln, Council Bluffs, Albert Lea, Dows, West Des Moines, Oakdale, St. Charles, St. Louis, Baton Rouge, La Crosse, Springfield (IL), Mauston, Normal, Madison, Effingham, Rockford, Pleasant Prairie, Country Club Hills, Highland Park, Terre Haute, Slidell, Mobile, St. Joseph, Indianapolis, Mishawaka, Angola, Greenville, Chattanooga, DeFuniak Springs, Auburn, Lexington, Blue Ash, Louisville, Bowling Green (KY), Grove City, Mt. Gilead, Dayton, London, Lima (OH), Knoxville, Brentwood, Dickson, Oxford, Dickson, Athens, Steele, Birmingham, Auburn, Greenville, Atlanta, Decatur, Ann Arbor, Toledo, Maumee, Macedonia, Catoosa, Joplin, Springfield (MO), Rolla, Tallahassee, Live Oak, Lake City, St. Augustine, Port Orange, West Melbourne, Port St. Lucie, West Palm Beach, Plantation, Florida City, Marathon, Turkey Lake, Ocala, Tifton, Macon
     
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