Supercharges and ICE occupancy

[mknox]

Theoretically then the longest you should have to wait for a stall is 15 minutes. But we know in reality that won't be the case. People will park there much longer than 15 minutes.

These shared sites seem ridiculous to me. I think if that is how the property owner wants to handle it, Tesla should move on and find a more accommodating host. Can you imagine a gas station where people are allowed to park in front of the pumps for "15 minutes" while they do something else? No one would stand for it.

 

[Joules Verne]

These shared sites seem ridiculous to me. I think if that is how the property owner wants to handle it, Tesla should move on and find a more accommodating host. Can you imagine a gas station where people are allowed to park in front of the pumps for "15 minutes" while they do something else? No one would stand for it.

Funny you should mention that. When pulling into this station, I had to wait to fill-up the tank, as the driver of the car occupying the pump went in to get himself a sandwich.

Very annoying. But at least it doesn't take long to pump gas once you get there.

Charging is a whole different deal, where you have to wait up to 15 minutes for a spot, then wait another 20 minutes for a charge. That's maddening.

- - - Updated - - -

For the broader issue, if you took the 84/91/15 route you can charge at Auburn, West Hartford, Greenwich or jump over to Darien on 95. Plenty of options in the NE to get a charge.

As mentioned above, Greenwich is really tough to park and I completely understand the decision to permit brief parking by everyone there. Greenwich is an emergency stop for me, not a primary.

Does the Telsa charging station mapping/routing system take these things into account? Is it smart that way? Or are all charging stations weighted the same?

If it's not smart, then we have to rely on our experience to know where to go and when - which dilutes the value of teslas mapping application.

Maybe Waze should add support for Supercharger status.

 

[rlang59]

I hit these same superchargers last week while driving through Connecticut. Both times I arrived (north bound and south bound) several of the spots were ICEd. When pulling up I argued with several of the ICErs. They seemed to interpret the "15 mins except while charging" that they could park there for 15 mins. Oh well, this really sucks for us, because the ICE cars don't give a crap and just park wherever they feel like it.

Once the Model X and 3 rolls out, there will be a lot more people waiting for the superchargers. Tesla really needs to do something about it. People don't park in handicap spots. But no one thinks twice about ICEing. This mentality needs to change.

Because that is exactly what it means.

 

[robby]

Was there another spot available when this person refused? Or was the spot EV only?

If you're talking about my drive back from AC, it was at Darien Northbound and there were plenty of other spots available, they were just further away. The spot was clearly marked for electric charging only. The man said he was waiting for someone to come outside and couldn't move because then the person wouldn't be able to find him. We waited behind him with flashers on for 20 minutes, at which point another Tesla owner came out and left early for us so we could charge.

 

[NigelM]

Once the Model X and 3 rolls out, there will be a lot more people waiting for the superchargers. Tesla really needs to do something about it. People don't park in handicap spots. But no one thinks twice about ICEing. This mentality needs to change.

Sorry but Tesla owners mentality needs to change. It's almost impossible for Tesla to stop spots getting ICE'd but you can do something about it; lobby locally to get the law changed in your state. It worked here in Florida where for the last few years now there's a fine (same as for parking in a handicap spot) and ICEing is pretty much a non-issue these days.

 

[Lex]

Sorry but Tesla owners mentality needs to change. It's almost impossible for Tesla to stop spots getting ICE'd...

I feel it's more a problem with Tesla Motors and the way they've positioned SC locations with property owners / managers.

The example that comes to mind to me is the Woodstock, Ontario SC. Apparently the property owner wanted the prestige of the SC bank closer to the building. Eventually normal NO PARKING signs had to be added to blast-away the ICE.

These are designed only to enable long-distance travel, so why would Tesla allow them to be placed in high traffic areas ? The users -- Tesla customers -- are typically weary road travelers who want to immediately drive-up to and plug-in and then perhaps stretch out their feet in a nice walk to a DQ or a Chipotle. Well, at least that's me

 

[mknox]

Sorry but Tesla owners mentality needs to change. It's almost impossible for Tesla to stop spots getting ICE'd but you can do something about it; lobby locally to get the law changed in your state. It worked here in Florida where for the last few years now there's a fine (same as for parking in a handicap spot) and ICEing is pretty much a non-issue these days.

I've looked in to it a little bit here in my neck of the woods. It seems to vary by city, town or county, but what I am told is that "private property" laws could be used by a property owner to enforce EV ICEing. There are nothing currently like the laws that compel property owners to enforce handicapped parking, however.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

This "shared" parking is an unavoidable consequence of building a Supercharger on public property. It's the only way Tesla can get Superchargers approved at many locations, especially when there isn't a lot of surplus parking.

 

[Chipper]

This IS frustrating but what I find even more frustrating is when a Tesla owner parks (Yes, that's right PARKS) at the Chattanooga Supercharger for several DAYS while evidently off on a flight somewhere. I actually put a note on the car and my note was removed and when I went back to charge there I was "invited" by the police to explain why I had placed the note on the car. Tesla has posted signs that say "Tesla Parking Only". That is a really DUMB sign. It encourages people to do exactly that...park at the supercharger slot. End of rant!

 

[TexasEV]

This IS frustrating but what I find even more frustrating is when a Tesla owner parks (Yes, that's right PARKS) at the Chattanooga Supercharger for several DAYS while evidently off on a flight somewhere. I actually put a note on the car and my note was removed and when I went back to charge there I was "invited" by the police to explain why I had placed the note on the car. Tesla has posted signs that say "Tesla Parking Only". That is a really DUMB sign. It encourages people to do exactly that...park at the supercharger slot. End of rant!

No excuse for that, if he needed to charge to get home he could have done so while waiting for luggage or after retrieving it, but this problem could easily be solved by installing a few 20A circuits in the garage and directing Tesla (and other EV owners) to those spaces.

 

[JohnQ]

I hit these same superchargers last week while driving through Connecticut. Both times I arrived (north bound and south bound) several of the spots were ICEd. When pulling up I argued with several of the ICErs. They seemed to interpret the "15 mins except while charging" that they could park there for 15 mins. Oh well, this really sucks for us, because the ICE cars don't give a crap and just park wherever they feel like it.

Once the Model X and 3 rolls out, there will be a lot more people waiting for the superchargers. Tesla really needs to do something about it. People don't park in handicap spots. But no one thinks twice about ICEing. This mentality needs to change.

Imagine you're an ICE, pulling into the Greenwich rest area. You're tired, have to pee and there are 2 spots available at the end. You pull up to them and see that they have supercharger stalls. The two cars next to you are not Teslas charging but regular cars like yours and they're in a supercharger stall as well. The sign says 15 minute parking is permitted. So you park, get out and use the bathroom. Not a problem and I have no reason to be angry or upset with the driver. There's no mentality that has to change by that driver as he's following the rules.

Tesla had two choices. Abide by the requirements of the rest area management or don't put in a supercharger. Which would you have preferred? And "negotiate better" is clearly not an option.

 

[mknox]

Tesla had two choices. Abide by the requirements of the rest area management or don't put in a supercharger. Which would you have preferred? And "negotiate better" is clearly not an option.

Why is "negotiate better" not an option? From what I have seen, there are actually sites that would love to have a Tesla Supercharger station for the attention it would draw, and I don't see why Tesla couldn't negotiate that advantage.

 

[TexasEV]

Why is "negotiate better" not an option? From what I have seen, there are actually sites that would love to have a Tesla Supercharger station for the attention it would draw, and I don't see why Tesla couldn't negotiate that advantage.

If you know of such locations where they would dedicate all the spaces to supercharging, here is the form they can use to express their interest:
Supercharging

 

[mknox]

If you know of such locations where they would dedicate all the spaces to supercharging, here is the form they can use to express their interest:
Supercharging

Oh, I've used that form :smile:

There is a Supercharger near me that does have proper, dedicated stalls, but the property owner wanted it located right up near the entrance to the building even though it cost a lot more for the utility to hook it up and it does get ICE'd because of being in prime spots. But the owner did want the Supercharger, and did dedicate full-time spots, because of the "prestige" it brings. I was just thinking that if someone was only going to give Tesla "part-time" spots, why not take a pass and find someone like this owner nearby?

 

[TaoJones]

I've decided that the best way to deal with ICEing is consistently and firmly. It's a familiar approach, really - address the problem with the level of influence necessary to resolve that problem. I have nooooooo problem inconveniencing someone who deliberately or carelessly chooses to inconvenience me.

Tools include:

1. Cordial communication with the vehicle owner/property manager/rep if applicable. Smile. Be nice. Many people simply choose to go through life with a level of awareness that is suboptimal for the reality at hand. First world problems.
2. Firm communication with same, as necessary.
3. A call to the nearest towing company.
4. A call to applicable law enforcement - some states actually have applicable laws and seem to enforce them (see WA). Clearly a location- and scenario-dependent option.

Other options include the delivery of "Don't be an ICEhole" cards - for educational purposes. It helps if the cards themselves have no ICEhole-ish content. Take the high road, as we are ambassadors all.

Different strokes for different folks and different scenarios/circumstances. Obviously. For most. It is not necessary to point out exceptions (But... but... but...). Heh - but people will.

Could Tesla do a more consistent job of marking/painting spaces? Yes. See the Culver City SC for a great job thereof - and even that won't stop ICEing during the holiday season when you can't buy a parking space within a half mile of that mall. But an active towing company contract would help. Problem with that is the inherent conflict of interest in putting SCs at busy malls instead of at, for example, fast food restaurants. But that's another thread.

In the end, until EV spaces are regarded through behavioral modification as are spaces for the disabled, the problem will persist. Given that there are still inhabitants of the shallow end of the gene pool who don't wear seat belts while driving, or who consider their turn signals to be a scarce resource, I figure that it will take the better part of a generation to get the point across about ICEing. This isn't a bad thing - it just is what it is - it's hard to modify largely undisciplined behavior - unless and until somebody gets shot over a charging space. Then we'll see some *fervent* handwringing as politicians try to legislate behavioral modification.

 

[Fiver]

Just make a nice flyer to leave under the ICE windshield wiper that says something to the effect of:

Thanks for helping us keep electric vehicles from charging! Your actions are doing wonders to help remind stupid Tesla owners that their clean environmentally friendly vehicle from an American car company made by American workers in America was a waste and that they should go back to gasoline powered cars (Preferably made overseas).
-Middle East Oil Company



Basically try reverse psychology with a little humor tossed in.

/edit These flyers might only work in the US, but it's a start.

 

[robby]

I think if you're going to leave a flyer, the best course is to be kind and educational. People don't enjoy being called out and generally don't respond well to aggression. I think part of the reason road rage is so prevalent is that everything feels purely personal when no mutual consideration or empathy is established. Instead of using sarcasm or anger, I would say:

"Hi there!

I realize it probably didn't seem like a big deal to park here, but I'm traveling far from home and this is the only place I can charge my car for the next 100 miles. I already have to wait for 30 minutes to charge up, and when I'm blocked from charging, it makes my stop more like an hour. Add up a few of these situations and it makes for a very long day!

If you'd be so kind, I'd really appreciate it if you could park elsewhere in the future. I can assure you other EV owners will appreciate it too!

Kindly,
Robby"

I understand the desire to vent when you feel rage, but consider whether you want to rant or whether you want to change behavior.

 

[Fiver]

I think if you're going to leave a flyer, the best course is to be kind and educational. People don't enjoy being called out and generally don't respond well to aggression. I think part of the reason road rage is so prevalent is that everything feels purely personal when no mutual consideration or empathy is established. Instead of using sarcasm or anger, I would say:

"Hi there!

I realize it probably didn't seem like a big deal to park here, but I'm traveling far from home and this is the only place I can charge my car for the next 100 miles. I already have to wait for 30 minutes to charge up, and when I'm blocked from charging, it makes my stop more like an hour. Add up a few of these situations and it makes for a very long day!

If you'd be so kind, I'd really appreciate it if you could park elsewhere in the future. I can assure you other EV owners will appreciate it too!

Kindly,
Robby"

I understand the desire to vent when you feel rage, but consider whether you want to rant or whether you want to change behavior.

Around my neck of the woods a flyer like that would only make rednecks want to park horizontally across more supercharging spots. Or get your car keyed. It's going to be very hard to convince people not to park in "rich a**hole Tesla owner" private spots. Towing won't help either as that only pisses people off more.

 

[sgopal2]

I think if you're going to leave a flyer, the best course is to be kind and educational...

I agree with Robby. A nice flyer would be a good idea. I might just print out a stack and keep them in my glove box for the next time I'm ICE'd.

I also came across a blog called ICE Shaming http://iceshaming.tumblr.com where users are encouraged to send in photos of offending ICErs to post on the web.

 

[Shaggy]

This happens in Austin off and on. There was talk of an ordinance, but nothing so far. I like Blink's approach, I leave one of these: http://www.blinknetwork.com/file/18760/Blink_Courtesy_Notices.pdf