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Supercharging and the 60kWh battery

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by DriverOne, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. DriverOne

    DriverOne Member

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    I keep hearing about the SC and the 85 battery, but what is life like with a 60? How much charge do you pick up in 30 mins? How long do you need to charge to make it between SCs, aren't they sometimes spaced at 150 miles? (Which is far more than half a battery will take you).
     
  2. DFibRL8R

    DFibRL8R Member

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    #2 DFibRL8R, Apr 3, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
    I visited the Delaware SC twice in my 60 kWh, didn't need to do a full range charge to make to my destination either time. When I first plugged in with 55 mi of range on the battery, I was charging 222A, 315V at 228 mi/hr (took a photo of the screen). As the battery filled, the charging rate slowed, I can't recall the exact rate towards the end but I was there about an hour and put about 100 miles of range in the car. My impression is the charging rate is initially the same for both the 60 and the 85 with the difference being the 60 will start to slow down sooner as it gets to it's max charge quicker due to smaller capacity. photo-2.JPG
     
  3. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

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    Depends on your SOC. The less miles you have left in the battery, the higher the KW charge.
     
  4. SuperCoug

    SuperCoug Model S Res #7734

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    Only 100 miles in an hour? That seems slow. I thought we were supposed to get a roughly 50% charge in 30 mins when the battery was low? 100 miles of range is roughly 50% of your battery capacity and you started at roughly a 25% SOC (55 miles). Therefore, to add 100 miles of range you would expect to need to add about 50% to the SOC (end at around 75-80% SOC).
     
  5. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Yep, and I'll be testing that over the next 2 days as we hit 5 superchargers travelling to Folsom from Hawthorne.
     
  6. Banahogg

    Banahogg Member

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    #6 Banahogg, Apr 3, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
    Here are some numbers charging my 60kWh at Folsom. The charging started somewhere between the 0 and 10 minute mark (this is just from my normal logging, I didn't specifically start it to track charging)


    mins
    rated miles
    percent
    0
    76.07
    41
    10
    100.33
    53
    20
    131.8
    66
    30
    155.08
    76
    40
    174.1
    84
    50
    189.51
    90
    60
    196.72
    96
    70
    196.72
    99
    0.0 76.07
    10.1 100.33
    20.2 131.8
    30.2 155.08
    40.3 174.1
    50.4 189.51
    60.5 196.72
    70.5 196.72
     
  7. wraithnot

    wraithnot Model S VIN #5785

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    How fast you charge depends on both your SOC and if anyone else is charging in the bay that is paired with the bay you are plugged into. A stack of twelve 10 kW chargers (120 kW total) is shared between pairs of charging bays. The first person to plug in to the pair gets up to 90 kW and the second person gets the leftovers. At least at the Gilroy superchargers, one pair of chargers is labelled 1A and 1B and the other pair is labelled 2A and 2B. If someone is already plugged into 1A, choose 2A or 2B (and vice versa). I haven't visited any other superchargers yet so I don't know if the pairs of charger bays are labelled similarly.
     
  8. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    @Banahogg - The 70 mins line looks wrong (rated matches previous line but percent does not).
     
  9. hans

    hans P631

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    It looks wrong but it isn't. I see the same thing all the time. Basically the 60 kWh cars never show more than 197 rated miles of range even though they charge up to a SOC that should equate to ~208 miles. Once you start driving the car will go 10-11 miles before the displayed range ticks down to 196. I have yet to test if this is "fixed" in the 4.3 firmware. This behavior is not limited to supercharging either as I have seen the same thing with a max range charge using an AC source.
     
  10. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    #10 brianman, Apr 3, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
    For Banahogg's data (adjusted for the rated range quirk that hans notes), unless I messed up the spreadsheet ...
    Code:
    end of period
    rated_range   charge_rate   charge_rate
    (miles)       (mpm)         (mph)
     131.80       3.15          189.0
     155.08       2.33          139.8
     174.10       1.90          114.0
     189.51       1.54           92.4
     196.72       0.72           43.2
     202.87       0.61           36.6
    
     
  11. Banahogg

    Banahogg Member

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    Hans has it right. There have been a few references to that around the forums. Basically, the percent->miles calculator in the car for the 60kWh battery clamps too low. Any time you charge past ~94%, the miles stop increasing, but the charge still increases. The percent reported is used for the "bar" display both in the car and in the app and that seems to be correct.

    The 60 minute should actually be ~201 and the 70 minute should be ~207 computing back from the percentages (not exactly percent*208, but close)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Those mph numbers look way wrong - maybe you computed mpm instead? 131->155 in 10 minutes is more than 2 mph
     
  12. SuperCoug

    SuperCoug Model S Res #7734

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    Thank you, that is GREAT information! I can't wait for the first SC's to be installed in Washington State.
     
  13. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Woops, typo. Yes, mpm. Fixing...
    ... fixed.
     
  14. Banahogg

    Banahogg Member

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    One more data point. From a cell phone picture that I *think* I took soon after I started charging, I show 79 miles of rated range and was getting a claimed 235 mi/hr, 319V, and 220/255A, so it was already ramping down a bit that close to half full. 319*255 is ~80kW, so not quite the claimed 90, but pretty darn close.

    We had enough to make it there around 40 minutes in, but we weren't done with our stop yet, so we just let it keep charging.
     
  15. DriverOne

    DriverOne Member

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    Some great info here, thanks!

    Where do you see the SOC percentage?
     
  16. DriverOne

    DriverOne Member

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    That's roughly a 2:1 ratio of highway driving to charging time. About 80 miles charged in half an hour. About 120 miles in an hour. That's a lot of starting and stopping on a road trip (though far better than driving between 10-40 outlets!). It does very practically extend the "range circle" one can reasonably drive from home, by using the SC as a stepping stone. Awesome.
     
  17. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    For optimizing cross-country speed on a drive with multiple legs and charging stops, the rule of thumb is simple: cruise at a speed equal to the rate of charge (in mph) at your next charging stop, but no slower than the speed which yields max range (~25mph in ideal conditions, a little faster if you've got a tailwind or are using a lot of juice for heating/cooling).

    Of course, no one is going to drive 25 on the highway shoulder with the emergency flashers on, but if you think about it for a minute, this is why Supercharging is so important: how fast you drive between charge stops is limited only by traffic laws and safety, not by charging concerns.
     
  18. Banahogg

    Banahogg Member

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    It's not directly available from the UI, but it is provided by the web API that the phone app uses and is reflected in the size of the green bar on the battery icon.

    If you aren't using the top part of the battery (such as if the superchargers are close enough together), then it's actually more like 3:1. Our whole trip from San Jose to Tahoe ended up being more like 4:1 even with spending more time at the mall than the charging required.

    I think I'll reduce the polling interval to more like 5 minutes for my logger the next time I take a supercharger trip to get more data.
     
  19. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Starting from 18 miles of range in our 60kWh we charged to 186 in an hour at the Hawthorne supercharger. At a half hour it was over 130.
     
  20. DriverOne

    DriverOne Member

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    That is fantastic. 110mph for 30 minutes. 170 miles in an hour. SCs spaced 100-150 miles will do nicely, especially if there is also one at the destination :)
     

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