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Not disagreeing but just wondering. Where/how is the "free supercharging for life" promise exactly made? It would be interested to see the exact language that Tesla has put against it to see what they could consider to be "abuse".
From Tesla's Website.
"Free long distance travel using Tesla’s Supercharger network"
That seems pretty clear to me, and for as long as I can remember they've used similar language.
Now I should say I ABSOLUTELY detest people that need everything spelled out for them. Where you had to tell them how everything worked, and why it wasn't in our best interest to abuse it.
So maybe I should steer clear of this topic.
To me one of the most alluring things about Tesla was things were a bit open. You could select 100% range charge if you wanted to, or you could use a third party app to communicate with your Tesla. Two potential avenues for abuse, and a chance for monetary damages for Tesla. Yet, those things are open as well as the superchargers.
Now of course all those things are monitored for abuse hence these customers receiving notes.
"Free long distance travel using Tesla’s Supercharger network"
That seems pretty clear to me, and for as long as I can remember they've used similar language.
Now I should say I ABSOLUTELY detest people that need everything spelled out for them. Where you had to tell them how everything worked, and why it wasn't in our best interest to abuse it.
So maybe I should steer clear of this topic.
To me one of the most alluring things about Tesla was things were a bit open. You could select 100% range charge if you wanted to, or you could use a third party app to communicate with your Tesla. Two potential avenues for abuse, and a chance for monetary damages for Tesla. Yet, those things are open as well as the superchargers.
Now of course all those things are monitored for abuse hence these customers receiving notes.
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They've always had language that implied it was really only meant for long distance travel.
Such as this from Jan 2013 (from the way back machine)
"Tesla is building a network of Superchargers throughout North America along well-traveled routes. Superchargers are designed to give road-trippers half a charge in about half an hour. Includes all hardware, software, testing, and unlimited free charging at all Supercharger locations."
What is long distance anyways?? In Some countries it Will have a different meaning.. Besides, what if you travel 'long' distances everyday? In any case, seems unacceptable to me that someone would receive a letter like : Dear, we notice you used supercharger X 20 times last month, this is too much, as a measure you won t be able to use superchargers for 30 days.."
Yes but now they are being more clear about it. This is from "Supercharging" section from Dec-6 2014:
Not much talk about road trips/long distance travel back then.
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I like your analogy here. I had thought of similar ones but they weren't as good as your fair Internet use policy.
Mine were California use tax - very few people actually paid their use tax annually on your tax forms; California did legally require us to pay the tax but Amazon and others wouldn't charge us. I calculated my use tax and paid it annually. One motivation was not to trigger an audit! Now most internet retailers are adding in CA sales tax.
Another analogy I thought of that is even weaker is copyright protection. Napster, movies etc... There was and still is quite a bit of fragrant violation of these laws particularly outside the US.
Maybe Tesla should encourage new buyers that supercharging should be for long distance driving and not your only regular charging option (at least in the US).
Mine were California use tax - very few people actually paid their use tax annually on your tax forms; California did legally require us to pay the tax but Amazon and others wouldn't charge us. I calculated my use tax and paid it annually. One motivation was not to trigger an audit! Now most internet retailers are adding in CA sales tax.
Another analogy I thought of that is even weaker is copyright protection. Napster, movies etc... There was and still is quite a bit of fragrant violation of these laws particularly outside the US.
Maybe Tesla should encourage new buyers that supercharging should be for long distance driving and not your only regular charging option (at least in the US).
I definitely agree that for their own protection they should have used language forbidding the use of daily charging.
Tesla tends to play it fast and loose, and sometimes this comes back to bite them. The entire way they implemented the supercharger network doesn't support daily charging, and it never did. In most cases they don't own the land the supercharger is on, and they also don't control the parking situation. The original intention of the supercharger network was to remove road-trip anxiety. So by removing this anxiety it helped sell cars.
Elon Musk was trying to break down barriers into EV's. He wasn't trying to do a bait and switch.
Now that isn't to say there aren't other issues where Tesla/Elon didn't go a little too far out on the edge in what was demo'd/advertised/implied.
But, as far as the Supercharger network goes i fail to see how they misled anyone. The wording changed as it was rolled out, and became more and more possible to abuse it.
I don't think Elon Musk intended to "bait and switch", but it seems like that is - in the end - what happened here.
Indeed, everything I've ever read about supercharging suggested unlimited use. The qualifications to limit it are new.
Again, here is how Tesla put it as late as last December:
Talk of bringing a Supercharger to "my area" and "Customers are free to use the network as much as they like."
That said, I think this thread will be quickly filled by people willing to give Tesla a pass on the old switcharoo, so I'll let them have the last word.
chriSharek
Member
These are clearly extreme cases and owners that didn't have chargers at work or at home can most certainly find a public charging station. We've even got a thread on TMC about someone trying to "live off" the SCs instead of paying their own way.
I am in complete agreement with (1) the stance Tesla is taking on the "local use" of SCs and (2) how they are going about educating owners about it before using a hammer.
What's going to happen at SCs once Tesla has 200 or 500,000 cars on the road? The local SC users will be blocking the long distance travelers. Let's all have some courtesy and a little foresight.
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^ completely agree and hope common sense triumphs over the entitlement attitude.
Agree. It never ceases to amaze me how a small number of people will INEVITABLY abuse any small benefit where it's possible. This is why we can't have nice things.
I suspect Musk's comments are more about over-occupied superchargers than the cost of electricity. You'll never be able to build enough stalls to act as a primary energy source for a large population of long range EVs.
On another note, this is yet another reason for Tesla to make larger batteries available. The longer the vehicle range, the fewer superchargers will be required.
Everything I always read indicated its purpose is to allow long distance.
There are no qualifications to limit it, so no, they are not new.
Some people are so good at jumping to conclusions.
Musk mentioned sending friendly notes, not placing limits, just reminding people what the SuperChargers are intended for.
Stop creating problems where there are none.
TomServo
Active Member
Couldn't Tesla capture the VIN as soon as the car is plugged into a SC and if the owner lives (based on their profile ZIP Code) within an announced mile range, be sent a note if that owner appears to be abusing their SC privileges?
I would suspect most people who can't charge at home didn't/won't get notes. It's easy for them to know if you are cheating or if superchargers are your only option - Tesla knows where you live and where the car charged. If you charged once at 40A at home, they know you have good charging facilities there. If you stop charging at home and only use superchargers, than a note is justified.
Of course, I'd argue that if you can't charge at home, you probably shouldn't buy an electric car, but that's another debate
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Not really. You might as well argue that you shouldn't charge often at 80A, since it's harder on the battery than 40A (which, in turn, is harder on the battery than 20A).
Worst case, you're supercharging a 60kWh pack at 135kW. That's 2.25C, worst case. That's just not worth worrying about; especially since it tapers to sub-1C quickly.
Danal
electricmotorglider.com
Tesla Motors statements regarding SC use have been, and are now, in conflict with each other. There is plenty of room for interpretation, and confusion. Here's just a few examples from the Tesla Motors web site as of today:
How often can I Supercharge? Is it bad for my battery?
Supercharging does not alter the new vehicle warranty. Customers are free to use the network as much as they like.
We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers.
Superchargers are conveniently located along the most popular routes in North America, Europe and Asia. Please refer to the Supercharger map for current and upcoming stations.
Personally, pre-purchase, I was told in a Tesla store and read on the website things that summed up as: "Unlimited SC usage for life of the vehicle you are about to buy". In my individual case (near McKinney, TX, aka far north Dallas), there is no supercharger close enough to affect my charging patterns when not traveling. And that is unlikely to change for me.
Even pre-purchase, I assumed that if someone lived where a supercharger was on their daily routes, I would expect them to charge at the SC as much as their convenience and normal charger etiquette allows, in full accordance with Tesla's statements when they were sold the car. In my opinion, this is not abuse. Tesla promised it, and needs to fulfill that promise to existing purchasers. If they have realized the underlying model is not sustainable, they need to change the agreement with purchasers from some point, wherein they clearly specify proper and improper usage, from that point forward.
Only forward. At this time, I'm a great salesmen for Tesla. I've sold at least three, maybe more. If they start recanting on positions for existing owners, that will stop. I won't become negative, I'll simply go silent.
How often can I Supercharge? Is it bad for my battery?
Supercharging does not alter the new vehicle warranty. Customers are free to use the network as much as they like.
We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers.
Superchargers are conveniently located along the most popular routes in North America, Europe and Asia. Please refer to the Supercharger map for current and upcoming stations.
Personally, pre-purchase, I was told in a Tesla store and read on the website things that summed up as: "Unlimited SC usage for life of the vehicle you are about to buy". In my individual case (near McKinney, TX, aka far north Dallas), there is no supercharger close enough to affect my charging patterns when not traveling. And that is unlikely to change for me.
Even pre-purchase, I assumed that if someone lived where a supercharger was on their daily routes, I would expect them to charge at the SC as much as their convenience and normal charger etiquette allows, in full accordance with Tesla's statements when they were sold the car. In my opinion, this is not abuse. Tesla promised it, and needs to fulfill that promise to existing purchasers. If they have realized the underlying model is not sustainable, they need to change the agreement with purchasers from some point, wherein they clearly specify proper and improper usage, from that point forward.
Only forward. At this time, I'm a great salesmen for Tesla. I've sold at least three, maybe more. If they start recanting on positions for existing owners, that will stop. I won't become negative, I'll simply go silent.
tonybelding
Active Member
My interpretation. . . This is mostly an educational issue. If Tesla point out that routine, daily supercharging is not so good for the battery, and that charging at home (if circumstances allow) helps to preserve the car's performance and value, then I think most people would be receptive to that.
Please note that "unlimited use" is not mutually exclusive to "within specific conditions".
I can have unlimited soda refills, but it's for that lunch sitting only.
I'd suggest that Tesla is only now having to be more specific. As was pointed out to Panu above, language describing the Superchargers as intended to enable "long distance travel" and "road trips" has been there all long.
If you choose to isolate some portions out of context than you can make the case for anything. Taken in the context as a whole, they've never been presented as a method for everybody to use simply to avoid providing their own charging if they reasonably could.
